post Posted June 21, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 21, 2016 10 hours ago, SIC said: Moreover that was the time of the Old Covenant. The concept of grace was absent then. Grace came into the world with Christ the concept of grace was decidedly not absent. Christ was that spiritual rock that the Israelites drank from in the wilderness -- it has always been God's plan and path of salvation to go through Christ. He just had not appeared in human flesh, born as a man before that time; but He has always existed eternally, and even while Israel was under law, the "goal" of the law was Christ, and sacrifices never removed sin - by God's grace they were removed, in His faithfulness, because He had told them He would forgive them if they did these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
post Posted June 21, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,045 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 615 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/09/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/03/1976 Share Posted June 21, 2016 ((sorry that last post was off-topic - maybe in retrospect i should have just PM'd ?)) but on-topic i agree with the replies earlier, basically. these were very likely young men, and a large crowd, not just a handful of 'kids' like the English translation might lead a person to believe. and i think also that they were mocking Elisha because of a a religious difference -- that there was certainly a subtext, not just jeering at the prophet because of him as a person, or because they were just kids being jerks without really meaning much by it. no - like earlier said, the people were worshiping idols at the time; other gods. it isn't written in the text, but my understanding is that they were probably mocking him because they were loyal to Ba'al and no doubt knew who he was. Elisha called a curse down from the Lord - and it's recorded here by the Holy Spirit for us; i have a hard time accepting that Elisha, with a double portion of Elijah's spirit, was simply lashing out at kids because he didn't like being personally made fun of or was self-conscious about his hairline. i believe that the young men were mocking God by mocking him, and that this is how Elisha understood it - so God was showing His power and authority to them by doing this. i figure there are already enough good responses that we should be able to understand this, but just to add my 2 cents and to show i also agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted June 22, 2016 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.67 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, post said: ((sorry that last post was off-topic - maybe in retrospect i should have just PM'd ?)) but on-topic i agree with the replies earlier, basically. these were very likely young men, and a large crowd, not just a handful of 'kids' like the English translation might lead a person to believe. and i think also that they were mocking Elisha because of a a religious difference -- that there was certainly a subtext, not just jeering at the prophet because of him as a person, or because they were just kids being jerks without really meaning much by it. no - like earlier said, the people were worshiping idols at the time; other gods. it isn't written in the text, but my understanding is that they were probably mocking him because they were loyal to Ba'al and no doubt knew who he was. Elisha called a curse down from the Lord - and it's recorded here by the Holy Spirit for us; i have a hard time accepting that Elisha, with a double portion of Elijah's spirit, was simply lashing out at kids because he didn't like being personally made fun of or was self-conscious about his hairline. i believe that the young men were mocking God by mocking him, and that this is how Elisha understood it - so God was showing His power and authority to them by doing this. i figure there are already enough good responses that we should be able to understand this, but just to add my 2 cents and to show i also agree I liked your two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior of Jesus Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 266 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 197 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/10/1995 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 On 6/22/2016 at 3:31 AM, Serving said: No probs brother. Lol. I am not brother. I am sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior of Jesus Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 266 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 197 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/10/1995 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 Thank you everyone for your wonderful responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) On 6/21/2016 at 4:04 PM, Out of the Shadows said: Even with all this rationale, it still seems a very harsh punishment. Actually, this was a life threatening situation for Elisha: Elisha was one man; there were 42 boys mauled but that;'s just the number of injured. We do not know for sure how many there were total. And the fact that they were on the road between Bethel and Jericho (a considerable distance), a band of young men in that number on a road between two cities in those days spelled trouble for travelers (what parent would let little children play eight miles from home in those days?). Even today, large numbers of young men can pose danger for people in cities; they're called youth gangs. A second consideration: in those days, to call someone "bald head" did not just mean hair loss due to age; it also meant that the hair of the face was missing. They were saying this person had no hair on their entire head or was losing all the hair (beard and mustache) on their head. In Hebrew culture, to have your beard shaven on you was a disgrace: this happened to King David's men when they went to propose terms of peace to the Ammonites, who thought it would be hilarious to shave their beards and hair and split their clothing to their buttocks ( 2 Samuel 10 has the whole story). David told his men to wait at Jericho until their beards grew back,; this was so they would no be shamed before their kings, as they were already greatly humiliated. But one thing was worse: to lose said hair because of leprosy; the boys' taunt, though not explicitly claiming Elisha was a leper, implied it IMO. I'm not going to repeat what has already been said by the GotQuestions article posted, but when all taken together, the situation was pretty much this: a large gang of young, strong and very agile men taunting a prophet who was known in Israel. Elisha was most likely older in years by this time, and even had he been a younger man, one vs 42 boys on the road was a no-win scenario. Running would not have been an option, and they were clearly seeking aggression towards him. Elisha did the only thing he could: he proclaimed a curse on them. God is the one who sent the bears, and what most do not mention is that the entire group should have run. That 42 got mauled means that they stuck around trying to fight them instead of getting out of there like any sane person should have (42 got mauled? I can see two or thee, but I don't think they were all THAT slow!) This isn't a case of an insult as much as this was an attempted assault on a servant of the Lord that got ugly when his Master showed that He took things quite seriously. Hope this helps someone out. And yeah, this is JMO, as I'm no expert on mucc of anything. Edited June 23, 2016 by RobertS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior of Jesus Posted June 23, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 266 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 197 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/10/1995 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 hour ago, RobertS said: Actually, this was a life threatening situation for Elisha: Elisha was one man; there were 42 boys mauled but that;'s just the number of injured. We do not know for sure how many there were total. And the fact that they were on the road between Bethel and Jericho (a considerable distance), a band of young men in that number on a road between two cities in those days spelled trouble for travelers (what parent would let little children play eight miles from home in those days?). Even today, large numbers of young men can pose danger for people in cities; they're called youth gangs. A second consideration: in those days, to call someone "bald head" did not just mean hair loss due to age; it also meant that the hair of the face was missing. They were saying this person had no hair on their entire head or was losing all the hair (beard and mustache) on their head. In Hebrew culture, to have your beard shaven on you was a disgrace: this happened to King David's men when they went to propose terms of peace to the Ammonites, who thought it would be hilarious to shave their beards and hair and split their clothing to their buttocks ( 2 Samuel 10 has the whole story). David told his men to wait at Jericho until their beards grew back,; this was so they would no be shamed before their kings, as they were already greatly humiliated. But one thing was worse: to lose said hair because of leprosy; the boys' taunt, though not explicitly claiming Elisha was a leper, implied it IMO. I'm not going to repeat what has already been said by the GotQuestions article posted, but when all taken together, the situation was pretty much this: a large gang of young, strong and very agile men taunting a prophet who was known in Israel. Elisha was most likely older in years by this time, and even had he been a younger man, one vs 42 boys on the road was a no-win scenario. Running would not have been an option, and they were clearly seeking aggression towards him. Elisha did the only thing he could: he proclaimed a curse on them. God is the one who sent the bears, and what most do not mention is that the entire group should have run. That 42 got mauled means that they stuck around trying to fight them instead of getting out of there like any sane person should have (42 got mauled? I can see two or thee, but I don't think they were all THAT slow!) This isn't a case of an insult as much as this was an attempted assault on a servant of the Lord that got ugly when his Master showed that He took things quite seriously. Hope this helps someone out. And yeah, this is JMO, as I'm no expert on mucc of anything. Thank you RobertS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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