Marcus O'Reillius Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 21 hours ago, Salty said: If Jesus gathers up His elect on the "day of the Lord", then that contradicts what Marcus wrote previously about the day of The Lord happening at the midpoint of the tribulation with a rapture of the Church. I'm sorry but you did not understand what I wrote. Let me try to communicate that succinctly and let's see if you can understand my position - because you are off-base with your critique. I am not Mid-Trib. That is Gleason Archer's position. I am Pre-Wrath - and I sequence (not time) the Rapture in this manner from the Olivet Discourse: the (midpoint) abomination of desolation the shortened Great Tribulation the precursor sign to the Day of the Lord which ends that Tribulation: the sun/moon/star event the sign of the Son of Man and His Coming on the clouds THEN the Rapture as the gathering of the Elect who Paul says remain and are still alive (after the shortened) Great Tribulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 23 hours ago, heyvavhey said: Oy.....cult alert. That two-house baloney will rot your brain if you aren't careful. . The two separate houses is written in God's Word, but babes in The Word of God cannot understand it, because they still suck the milk bottle, which is why they also are familiar with "baloney" instead of the "strong meat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 3 hours ago, heyvavhey said: Unless your fathers were worshipping idols of Baal on the mountains of Samaria, you are not counted in Ephraim. According to the Jewish people, the people of Israel, these two sticks were restored when Cyrus issued the decree for them to return to the land and rebuild Jerusalem and the Temple, circa 537 B.C. I see that as only partially fulfilled, but regardless, this promise only includes the literal seed of the Tribes of Jacob. Its not intended for "Christians" or gentiles who think they're keeping torah. All Jews are Israelites and all Israelites are Jews. Not a single gentile is included in the promise to restore the Tribes of Jacob, though all Tribes will have gentiles as "companions". The terms Jew, Israel, and the circumcision are used interchangeably throughout the Newer Covenant scriptures. Those not included in the land covenant given to Abraham are called "gentiles". No gentile was ever told in the bible that they can become an "Israelite" by faith in Yeshua. If your presumption were true, it would have been mentioned at least once and confirmed by at least one witness. Nada, zip, zilch, nothing... Do you freak out when someone points out that you are a gentile? Only someone in this identity cult would do that. Now that above truly... is what baloney is. Ezra 1 & 2 names exactly which tribes of Israel returned to Jerusalem after the 70 years captivity of the "house of Judah" to Babylon. NONE of the ten tribes are mentioned returning. Only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi are shown returning, along with strangers, which some of those foreigners had crept into the priesthood. And no, not all Israelites are Jews. Per the Jewish historian Josephus, only those who returned to Jerusalem from the Babylon captivity took the name Jew from the tribe of Judah. Those became the Jews, including the strangers and foreigners that lived in the lands of Judea also. The ten tribed "house of Israel" was NEVER in captivity by king Nebuchadnezzar. Their's was a separate captivity from Judah's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: It's really nice to think we're Hebrew. In fact, it's self-aggrandizing. With all your conjecture, and your evidence from one scholar, the best that can be said to day is that where the 10 tribes ended up - is a mystery, which hopefully, in time, will be revealed. It's really interesting stuff to wonder about. However, I look to Scripture, and the Great Multitude is made of every nation, tribe, language, and people. So unless you want to expand the 10 tribes to Asia, the Americas pre-Columbus, and Africa and other parts of the world - to say that only the lost 10 tribes - and that's the best description we can factually call them - make up Europe - still does not prevent the Gospel from going out to the Gentiles who are more than just Caucasian. And Paul did not teach that the churches he formed in Asia Minor were of these lost 10 tribes. But that's exactly how... the Church was expanded. The Gospel was specifically sent to Asia Minor and Europe next. Then those westerners as ambassadors spread The Gospel to the other nations of the world, covering the farthest corners of the globe. But some blind to history, and because many children hate study of history today, they would not understand this point because they are told lies from its own President that the U.S. was never a Christian nation and choose to believe it! Now if Jews and Gentiles of the nations are jealous of how God worked The Gospel through the ten tribes after their scattering among the Gentiles, then that's something they'll have to get used to admitting, because when Jesus comes this is one of the mysteries that all will learn, like how... Ephraim became "a multitude of nations" like the Genesis 48 prophecy said. But since you don't recognize this, it shows you throw away that prophecy too in order to keep to a false tradtion that you are able to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 6 minutes ago, Salty said: But that's exactly how... the Church was expanded. How? Ephraim? What you have here is a non sequitur. God directed where the Gospel was spread. That is the "how". That has nothing to do with your pet theory on Caucasians being the lost 10 Tribes when the Gospel goes out to the world... Who are you to say that the "sea of people" which is Europe, aren't part of the latter instead of the former? The division line is nearly invisible! The Abramaic Covenant was also to include the world. And the fullness of the Gentiles must come in before the partial hardness of the Jews, the favored of the two groups in my opinion, is lessened to the point that they become malleable and receive the Holy Spirit as we have been granted that wedding gift. Whether or not God has redeemed the 10 Tribes through the Church remains moot and mute in the New Testament. There are 12 Tribes included in the apportionment of the Land in Ezekiel though - although they are named differently than from Old. What God's Plans are in regards to the 10 Tribes is not part of Christian theology in the main. I've heard of it, but it has no relative bearing on my study of eschatology as to the people, nations, languages and tongues who do make up the Great Multitude or the sequencing of how what IS written about the end-times is to come about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: I'm sorry but you did not understand what I wrote. Let me try to communicate that succinctly and let's see if you can understand my position - because you are off-base with your critique. I am not Mid-Trib. That is Gleason Archer's position. I am Pre-Wrath - and I sequence (not time) the Rapture in this manner from the Olivet Discourse: the (midpoint) abomination of desolation the shortened Great Tribulation the precursor sign to the Day of the Lord which ends that Tribulation: the sun/moon/star event the sign of the Son of Man and His Coming on the clouds THEN the Rapture as the gathering of the Elect who Paul says remain and are still alive (after the shortened) Great Tribulation Marcus said: "In the detailed parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology, in Rev chapters 13-16 the Day of the Lord, with its Harvest of Saints, cones after the midpoint abomination revealed to be a talking image of the anti-Christ." Yet what you said in the above quote is different, because associating the "Day of the Lord" and "Harvest of Saints" right after the midpoint abomination is to say at the 'start' of the 1260 latter half of Daniel's "one week". You also said this: "You can fight all you want, but I still have John 14:3, the parable of the wheat and tares in Mt 13, 1Th 4:17-18, and 2Th 2:1 to buttress my argument." John 14:3 takes place on earth at Jerusalem after Jesus' return to this earth. It's what the Ezekiel temple and chambers are about, abodes of the priests. 1 Thess.4 does not tell us we are raptured to Heaven. It says in the "air" in the "clouds". And the Greek word for "air" is related to the idea of 'breath', and thus pointing to God's Spirit He breathed into man from the beginning, signifying the change at the twinkling of an eye Paul spoke of in 1 Cor.15. Matt.13 about the parable of the tares does not mention the Millennium time that's in between Christ's return and the tares thrown into the fire. Yet we know per Rev.20 there is a 1,000 Millennium before that happens. All that is still irrelevant to when the "day of the Lord" happens and whether or not the Church is raptured to Heaven. 2 Thess.2 reveals Christ's coming after the "man of sin" is revealed. But it still is not clear of where the Church is gathered to, nor the event of the "day of the Lord". So if you're trying to use those Scriptures as examples to show you're not Pre-trib, then you're actually using the very Scriptures Pre-trib loves to throw out in defense of their pre-trib rapture theory. And that's why I didn't see a Pre-Wrath position in your theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyvavhey Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 346 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 140 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/09/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: Does Jesus really need billions of souls, His cherished Bride, to be at a battle against hundreds of millions? In the account where Jesus is about to go out to do battle at Armageddon, do not we hear the Great Multitude of Saints He will save cheer Him on as He goes out with His Army? Yes, we do. And who makes up His Army - who never leaves the Lamb's side? (Rev 14:4 - the 144,000) As God only needed 300 to take on tens of thousands with Gideon - 144,000 will do nicely against more then 200,000,000. How many he needs is not my decision. Nor is it mine to question. He defeats them at Har Meggido with a word from his mouth so maybe he wants us there? I just go where he wants me and not worried about the destination. ? We see the Saints rejoicing because we are the saints rejoicing I like that every tribe tongue and nation will be one people in that day Edited December 22, 2016 by heyvavhey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 Just now, Salty said: Marcus said: "In the detailed parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology, in Rev chapters 13-16 the Day of the Lord, with its Harvest of Saints, comes after the midpoint abomination revealed to be a talking image of the anti-Christ." Yet what you said in the above quote is different, because associating the "Day of the Lord" and "Harvest of Saints" right after the midpoint abomination is to say at the 'start' of the 1260 latter half of Daniel's "one week". I didn't say it comes RIGHT after. I said it comes after. And it does. It also comes after the Two Laws in Revelation 13:15-16 which make the Great Tribulation so great for the Elect that they are in danger of being completely wiped out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,665 Content Per Day: 0.46 Reputation: 512 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/11/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: How? Ephraim? What you have here is a non sequitur. God directed where the Gospel was spread. That is the "how". That has nothing to do with your pet theory on Caucasians being the lost 10 Tribes when the Gospel goes out to the world... Who are you to say that the "sea of people" which is Europe, aren't part of the latter instead of the former? The division line is nearly invisible! The Abramaic Covenant was also to include the world. And the fullness of the Gentiles must come in before the partial hardness of the Jews, the favored of the two groups in my opinion, is lessened to the point that they become malleable and receive the Holy Spirit as we have been granted that wedding gift. Whether or not God has redeemed the 10 Tribes through the Church remains moot and mute in the New Testament. There are 12 Tribes included in the apportionment of the Land in Ezekiel though - although they are named differently than from Old. What God's Plans are in regards to the 10 Tribes is not part of Christian theology in the main. I've heard of it, but it has no relative bearing on my study of eschatology as to the people, nations, languages and tongues who do make up the Great Multitude or the sequencing of how what IS written about the end-times is to come about. So Arabs now are Jews born of the tribe of Judah?!*?! Is that what you're trying to say, like those born of the seed of Israel can be ANY race? Well that certainly is a bunch of balderdash! God created all the different races of mankind, but He did not create the seed of Israel like a bag of M'M's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted December 22, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2016 Just now, Salty said: So Arabs now are Jews born of the tribe of Judah?!*?! I didn't say that. I sense a pattern here on your part though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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