Salty

And I thought you understood what I covered from Apostle Paul in Romans 11! And instead you accuse me... of anti-semitism too? What Paul taught there in Romans 11 about the blindness God put upon the Jews is an elementary Christian doctrine, regardless of who doesn't like to admit it. You can tell the owner then, to just wipe ALL of my posts, because I certainly wouldn't want to send anyone to hell for showing them God's Word as written!

I've got to assume from what you've written so far that you hold to the doctrine of men called the Pre-trib Rapture. I do not, nor do I find that doctrine written anywhere... in God's Word. The 144,000 of Israel does not mean they all will be beheaded or delivered up. It simply means an elect group of Israelites that God has preserved so they won't fall away to the coming Antichrist. It does not include anyone from the past, but only those of the final generation. And only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent the Israelites called Jews. The rest are from the ten northern tribes of Israel which are lost, and were never known as Jews. Even the Jews don't know who and where the ten lost tribes of Israel are. (the ten tribes lost their heritage as part of Israel. If you don't know this Bible history, then you've got a lot of catching up to do in OT study). Rev 7:13-14 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. KJV That idea of their having come out of "great tribulation" and washed their robes in the blood of The Lamb (Jesus) means THEY WENT THROUGH THE TRIBULATION and overcame. They did not... fly away, like your doctrine of men wrongly teaches. The Revelation 7 chapter is about God's sealing of His servants prior to the 'day of the Lord" that ends this world. That "great multitude" represent saved Gentiles being shown John in the future... at the time after Christ's return. In Revelation 19, the Rev.19:1-9 verses are ALL of the time AFTER Christ's second coming! That is when the marriage supper will take place, i.e, in His Kingdom, which means AFTER the tribulation. My point is, the marriage supper cannot happen at ANY other time than the time Christ's future Millennium. So no rapture prior to the end of the tribulation, which is actually a doctrine of men. And ah... the living waters, you haven't been studying your OT Bible, tche, tche, tche, shame on you... because those living waters are about God's River that flows out from under the threshold of the sanctuary of Ezekiel, during Christ's future Millennium reign! (See Ezekiel 47, as it is ON EARTH). It really saddens me that so many of my Christian brothers and sisters have to put up with preachers that don't know their OT Bible as well as the NT. The last 9 chapters of the Book of Ezekiel are all about the future "thousand years" reign by our Lord Jesus and His elect, in Jerusalem, on earth. Even Revelation 20 shows that dwelling as the "camp of the saints" on earth. They don't even consider even Genesis 2 which first mentioned God's River in His Garden of Eden, flowing out of Eden to feed four other rivers upon the earth! Instead, some preacher who preaches as a business like a hireling (John 10) tells brethren all that is up in the clouds away from the earth somewhere! They create an imaginary la, la land, simply because they have no understanding of these things in God's Word! It saddens me (yet God spoke of this problem too - Jeremiah 23; Ezekiel 13; John 10; Acts 20:29). That's confusing. The New Jerusalem is for the new heavens, and a new earth timing, which is after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign, and after the "lake of fire" destroys the devil, death, hell, and the wicked. God's River will manifest on earth DURING Christ's 'thousand years" reign, as written in Zechariah 14 and Ezekiel 47. Zech 14:7-9 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. KJV That "one day which shall be know to the LORD" is about the day of Christ's second coming. That is when those "livings waters shall go out from Jerusalem". Notice it didn't say those waters shall go out from Heaven, nor from the clouds. It's about future Jerusalem ON EARTH. The Ezekiel 47 chapter even names the areas of Engedi in the middle east with that River. So come back down to earth now, and get out of the clouds, the clouds are not going to be our home. You're definitely wrong there. Christ's elect will rule over all nations on earth during Christ's future thousand years reign. That means Christ's Church. And like Paul said, there is no difference between Jew or Greek (put for Gentile), we are all ONE BODY in Christ Jesus. The doctrine you're preaching is false. It comes from the Edward Irving and John Darby history in 1830's Great Britain. For over 1,800 years, no pre-trib rapture idea was ever taught in any Christian Church. You have well left the topic of discussion of my post by now. Should I continue to rebut your doctrines of men? Well... maybe a little more... The 24 elders most likely represent the 12 Patriarchs and 12 Apostles. And the timeline view there in Rev.5 about that is a FUTURE VIEW in Christ's Millennial Kingdom, on earth. In Ezekiel 44, we are shown that only the Zadok (the Just) are allowed to approach Jesus at His table and serve Him. At the same time, we are shown that the Levites which went astray when Israel went astray, will only be allowed to do the menial duties in that future sanctuary on earth and will not be allowed to approach Jesus. In Rev.3, Jesus promised to the Church of Philadelphia that He would make the false Jews of the synagogue of Satan to come worship at their feet, which suggests Christ will be right next to His elect of that Church. My point, thus the Zadok (the Just) of Ezekiel 44 are the faithful elect of Christ's Church which will be near Him in that time (i.e., the marriage supper)! Jesus is our King of Righteousness, Melchizedek, which is where that name Zadok comes from which means 'righteousness, or just'. That's about as far as I care to go.

That shows the outer limits of your ability to think, which is sad, because it's all wrong. By God Himself blinding them so The Gospel could go to the Gentiles, and then in final removing the blindness of Rom.11:7-8 that He put on them so they would then 'see' to believe on Jesus, that is about God using them, and then in final SAVING them! And that's why Paul said this, which YOU reject unto your own destruction: Rom 11:23 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. KJV What does Paul mean by their being able to be graffed in "again"? They are the "natural branches", God's original chosen, which is the point of Rom.11:29 further below. They're like Apostle Paul BEFORE Jesus struck him down on the road to Damascus and influenced Paul's choice to believe on Jesus. Saul (then called) clearly rejected Jesus Christ prior to that. But Jesus divinely intervened with Paul, which is a sign of the very elect chosen. That's why Jesus also said Paul was His "chosen vessel" in Acts 9. So just like how Jesus intervened in Paul's choice, He can also do that with the majority of unbelieving Jews at the end of this world, when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. This will happen only for those Jews that still do not remain in unbelief, like Paul said in the Rom.11:23 verse. And thus Paul says... Rom 11:26-29 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. KJV

That example of shiloh357's question is an example of Biblical ignorance folks. He asked me if I have a problem with the Jews, when the matter I've been showing by Apostle Paul from Romans 11 is how God is going to SAVE all the Jews once the "fulness of the Gentiles" comes in. That's when Paul pointing to God removing the blindness He put upon them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles! So if anything, I am showing how Apostle Paul taught GOD HAS NOT FORGOTTEN THE MAJORITY OF JEWS, EVEN THOUGH THE MAJORITY OF THEM STILL REJECT JESUS CHRIST TODAY! So what shiloh357 has done is to FALSELY ACCUSE ME OF ANTI-SEMITISM, when I am actually declared how God is going to SAVE THE JEWS TOO! It is ignorant brethren like shiloh357 that is showing anti-semitism, because he is showing he DOES NOT BELIEVE THE JEWS CAN BE SAVED! He obviously is against... the Jew's salvation for some reason! And that is... anti-semitism.

That's just what YOU say. And so far, because of your lack of Scripture evidence to refute it, it's shows what YOU say isn't really much. Now go ahead and try again, to disprove that Paul didn't say God put blindness upon the Israel in part: Rom 11:7-8 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. KJV And while you're at it, say that part in red to yourself outloud, making sure our Heavenly Father can hear you, so He can label you a heretic against His Word and against Apostle Paul.

You fail to even make a point in all that long post. If you cannot stay on topic of the discussion, you shouldn't bother with wasting other brethren's time.

You don't recognize the whole Bible, you don't even know what is contained in a lot of it, otherwise you would understand what I've been showing directly from God's Holy Writ. No, you and others like you are on a POLITICAL agenda, the difference is you're just USING The Bible to promote men's doctrines.

Well, yes it certainly does mean God INFLUENCED their choice to believe, or not believe. And the other Scriptures covering the future Millennium time, like where Paul quoted Isaiah, shows ALL of them will be saved, meaning once that BLINDNESS GOD PUT UPON THEM IS REMOVED.

Well, actually, only a REMNANT of the northern ten tribes migrated south and joined with the "house of Judah" in Jeroboam's days, because of the golden calves idols he setup in the north. But that certainly was NOT the majority of the ten tribes. The majority stayed in the north and were removed by the kings of Assyria long before Jesus' 1st coming. Since you don't recognize this from GOD'S HOLY WRIT, it shows you don't have any business even commenting on the matter.

You yourself appear to have been 'blinded' by that "spirit of slumber", it is obvious. Let's do a little test... Do you believe Jesus of Nazareth is GOD come in the flesh???

Either one accepts what Paul said below (in red), or they don't: Rom 11:8 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. KJV Rom 11:26-29 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. KJV

It is not about all Israel being partially blinded. It is about a part... of Israel that God has blinded away from The Gospel so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. That part... of Israel are the majority of Jews, even the Jews which agreed to have Jesus crucified! It was not the ten tribes, because they were already removed and gone out of the land before Jesus' 1st coming. Only the "house of Judah" (Jews) was left in the southern lands of Israel.

No since in your trying to explain it, you don't understand the Scripture about God putting that blindness upon them.

Since God put the "spirit of slumber" upon that blinded part of Israel, it means He will not destroy them since He caused... their blindness. And as I said from the beginning! WHEN that blindness is REMOVED, then they will be able to 'hear', and 'see', with eyes to see and ears to hear, and then will make their choice WITHOUT ANY OUTSIDE INFLUENCE, even with Satan locked in his pit prison for a thousand years! But until Jesus comes, the MAJORITY of them WILL remain BLINDED BY GOD'S HAND. During this world, God has 'chosen' an elect remnant out of the seed of Israel, and thus some Jews have not been blinded away from The Gospel. The rabbi who started the Jews For Jesus group converted to Jesus because he began to properly understand the 70 weeks prophecy in the Book of Daniel regarding the time that Messiah would come (1st coming), and then be 'cut off'.

That's just more denial of what is actually written. One more time... Rom 11:7-10 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. KJV The Greek for "slumber' there is katanuxis which means 'a prickling (sensation, as of the limbs asleep), stupor (lethargy)'. It means God put upon their minds confusion, lethargy, towards The Gospel. THEY DID NOT DO IT OF THEMSELVES!