QUESTIONS concerning 1Cor.15 & 1Thes.4

[Salty]

11 hours ago, eileenhat said:

You've written much Insight (so I have been catching up).

I began investigating "House of Ephraim" usage and found this article (that I can attest too) that clarifies that The House of Ephraim is the USA.

http://www.triumphpro.com/ephraim-gods-helmet.htm

They list five good reasons....(that I have read so far).

The one I give credence too (with God's assurance) is this quote:

"

Ephraim – God’s “Helmet”

 

 

            God’s Word suggests very strongly that Ephraim was to become a mighty military power.  In the book of Psalms, God prophesied, “Gilead is Mine, Manasseh is Mine; Ephraim also is the HELMET for My head” (Psalm 108:8).  “Ephraim is my helmet,” says the New International Version.  “Ephraim is the strength of my head,” says the King James Version.  The Hebrew word is maoz and literally means, “a fortified place, force, fortress, rock, strength, strong, defense, stronghold.”

 

 

            In Psalm 60:7, God says, “Ephraim also is the strength of my head” (KJV).  The New King James has it, “Ephraim also is the helmet [lit., “protection’] for My head.” 

 

 

            Again, notice that its is EPHRAIM whom God associates with military power, strength, compares to a fortress, and as being powerful in defense and as being a mighty stronghold – a SUPERPOWER!  He even refers to Ephraim as being His own helmet, as a nation He uses to protect His “head” – His own government.  " end quote

 

This goes along with what I have been stating about the USA being God's Church of Philadelphia (another way to see it)....mentioned in Revelations.

 

Ephraim today actually is represented by the historical western Christian nations and the believing nations outside the west. It's a type of commonwealth of nations idea, like Paul said in Ephesians 2.

The promises you're talking about regarding Ephraim is involving God's Birthright promises first given through Abraham, then to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Joseph, which finally wound upon Ephraim and his brother Manasseh (1 Chronicles 5). Upon Ephraim is where God's Birthright stopped. It has never moved since.

The Birthright involved: great number of seed; ruling the gates of his enemies (military power); plenty of corn and wine (earth resources, great food production).

Example with Joseph:

Gen 49:22-26
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.
KJV

Ephraim and Manasseh were the two sons of Joseph born to him in Egypt, and that Blessing continued upon the younger son Ephraim (see Gen.48).

But this above Gen.49 Scripture is prophecy for the "last days" of what would befall Jacob's 12 sons:

Gen 49:1
1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
KJV

That means... all those blessings are manifested on earth today (the "last days") with Joseph's heir, his son Ephraim.

So let's do a little comparison:

Does the nation of Israel have the greatest military? They do well indeed for theirselves, but they still cannot be compared to the great militaries of the western Christian nations. The navies of the western nations still... rule the seas.

What about plenty of corn and wine? The nation of Israel is improving their lands in the middle east, but it's still not comparable to the great food growers in the Americas and the western nations where the best crop producing lands are. What nations have been most famous for wine production?

Gen.49:10 also prophesied that the tribe of Judah would keep the royal sceptre part of God's Birthright (1 Chron.5 also shows that). That means one from the tribe of Judah was to always be sitting upon a throne over Israel. We don't see that in the nation of Israel today, as God removed David's throne from them when the king of Babylon destroyed Jerusalem and Zedekiah, king of Judah, and his son heirs. But there are thrones setup in the western Christian nations though, where those Birthright promises to Joseph are manifest today.

 

[Salty]

11 hours ago, n2thelight said:

"A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of Thy people Israel" - (Luke 2:32)

 

It is generally taught in the Christian churches of America, that the world is divided into three main religious groups - Jews, Gentiles and Christians.

These religious groups teach that anyone who is not a Jew, must belong to one or the other of these remaining groups, and is either a Gentile or a Christian. The modern definition of a "gentile" as given in Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary is: "relating to the nations at large, as distinguished from the Jews."

But here is something important you MUST know, if you are to understand the Bible. The word GENTILE is not used in any of the ancient manuscripts, simply because there was no such word in the Hebrew or Greek languages. The word GENTILE as used in our modern Bible versions, including the "much loved" King James Version, in the Old Testament, always comes from the Hebrew word "goy," (singular) and "goyim", (plural). It is translated five different ways in the Old Testament, according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible; "goy or goyim (singular or plural)", a foreign NATION hence GENTILEGENTILE; (2) HEATHEN; (3) NATION, and (4) PEOPLE, or ANOTHER."

Notice that the Hebrew word "goy, or goyim," is NEVER translated to mean "non-Jew."

The word "goy" is found in the Old Testament some 557 times. Thirty times it has been translated GENTILE; eleven times as people; 142 times as heathen; 373 times as NATION, and one time as ANOTHR. But not once as "non-Jew."

Let's examine a few specific verses of Scripture in the Old Testament, using the word GENTILE in place of the word NATION, as used by the translators. It should be remembered that the word "goy" or "goyim" was used in every instance in the original Hebrew.

1) - (Genesis 12:2) - "I will make of thee (Abraham) a great GENTILE (nation.) Doesn't make much sense, does it?

2) - (Genesis 17:4, 5) - ". . . and thou (Abraham) shall be a father of many GENTILES (nations), neither shall thy name any more be called Abram; for a father of many GENTILES (nations) have I made thee."

3) - (Genesis 25:23) - "And the Lord said to her (Rebekah the wife of Isaac, the son of Abraham) two GENTILES(nations) are in your womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from your bowels; the one people  shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

4) - (Genesis 48:19) - ". . . And his seed (Abraham's descendants) shall become a multitude of GENTILES (nations)."

This kind of translation does not make much sense. But if you will look closely at your King James Version, you will find the translators used the Hebrew word "goy" as NATIONS in one place and as GENTILE in another. Could it be that they were influenced by the Church doctrine of their time, since the word GENTILE never appeared in earlier manuscripts? The King James Version, for instance was written because King James, disliked the footnotes of the Geneva Bible, which was the Bible of the Reformation fathers.

Now for comparison let us use these same verses as the modern translations would have us use them, with "non-Jew" in the place of "tribe or nation." This should be a clear indication of how the modern translators, beginning with the King James Version, changed the meaning of these verses:

1) - (Genesis 12:2) - "I will make of thee (Abraham a great non-Jew (nation)."

2) - (Genesis 17:4, 5) - ". . . And thou (Abraham) shall be father of many non-Jews . . . for a father of many non-Jews have I made thee." Let me remind you again, that the Hebrew word "goy or goyim", meaning "tribe or nation," is used every time in the original Hebrew.

3) - (Genesis 35:11) - "Two non-Jews are in thy (Rebekah's) womb."

4) - (Genesis 48:19) - "Thy seed (Abraham's) shall become a great multitude of non-Jews." (Of course this prediction is accurate.)

You can see, with a little effort, that the modern translators, using "goy" to mean GENTILE, with it's connotation of meaning "non-Jew" doesn't make very much sense. Yet this is the way most of our preachers translate it.

It is also interesting to a student of grammar, that the Hebrew word "goy" and the five words which are used to translate it into English are all "collective nouns, in Hebrew and as such cannot be used to refer to an individual. These words are HEATHEN; NATION; TRIBE; PEOPLE; or simply, ANOTHER. This means there can be no such individual as a GENTLE, yet I have heard Judeo-Christian preachers brag about how they are a "Gentile saved by grace. This is either intellectual stupidity or dishonesty, take your pick.

....

 

Actually, God did... make Gentile nations from Abraham's loins!!!

How many nations are there today from Abraham's son Ishmael? And they are all... non-Hebrew GENTILE nations!

Thus your play on the goyim word falls flat.

 

 

[Salty]

10 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Just so you no even though it should'nt matter,Im black...

Touche!

God is revealed from nation to nation whosoever has his ear and heart tuned to His Word and Truth, and not to man's, regardless of race!

[Salty]

10 hours ago, heyvavhey said:

 

Are you aware that all identity cults redefine the bible to make themselves the "true Israel"?

What is being espoused here is a hodgepodge buffet of several cultic groups from British Israelism to Armstrong's WW CoG 

The fruit of it is not good

I'll trade it any day for believing that only Jews are God's people, especially when Jews reject God's Savior Jesus Christ, and treat Him as a seditionist.

[WailingWall]

13 hours ago, inchrist said:

Enlighing me with interpretation of this verse

The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

 

13 hours ago, heyvavhey said:

It means: The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah.

 

...and nothing else. Please show me where there's a Christian mentioned in that sentence.

 

 

Youse dont think that covenant has already arrived. Do ya?

Edited December 23, 2016 by WailingWall

[Salty]

9 hours ago, heyvavhey said:

 

The tribes that have been located are in India and Africa. 

There are several historic errors of fact in your assumptions but I'm done through Shabbat now. 

Shalom. 

Yeah, sure, just like speculation that God's Eden was somewhere in ancient Africa.

Not all of the ten tribes migrated westwards, so it would be natural that some migrated to the east also, and they did (Sacae-Sai).

[Salty]

5 hours ago, inchrist said:

You guys are not here to discuss in truth

 

It's because Judaizer converts to Christ are still more allied to the tenets of Judaism than Christianity and The Bible. They can't get away from their Babylonian Talmud sage writing they exalt over The Bible.

[Salty]

8 minutes ago, WailingWall said:

 

Youse dont think that covenant has already arrived. Do ya?

Partially, yes.

Notice the second Hebrews quote omits the house of Judah. Do you wonder why?

It's because the majority of the house of Judah, or Jews, have yet to turn to Christ Jesus and believe on Him as The Messiah. Not until God removes their blindness like Paul taught in Rom.11 will many of them turn and believe on Jesus Christ, and then that Hebrews 8 promised to both houses will be finished.

 

[n2thelight]

19 minutes ago, Salty said:

Touche!

God is revealed from nation to nation whosoever has his ear and heart tuned to His Word and Truth, and not to man's, regardless of race!

I take it ur a lil salty

[WailingWall]

20 minutes ago, Salty said:

Partially, yes.

Notice the second Hebrews quote omits the house of Judah. Do you wonder why?

It's because the majority of the house of Judah, or Jews, have yet to turn to Christ Jesus and believe on Him as The Messiah. Not until God removes their blindness like Paul taught in Rom.11 will many of them turn and believe on Jesus Christ, and then that Hebrews 8 promised to both houses will be finished.

 

HEBREWS 8 [8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: [9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12] For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [13] In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT, HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. NOW THAT WHICH DECAYETH AND WAXETH OLD IS READY TO VANISH AWAY.

Although we are to try and walk as if Gods law was written in our heart, has the covenant of Hebrews 8 already arrived?

Verse 8- I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. Not a gentile mentioned anywhere. Are you from either house?

Verse 11- Does EVERYONE know the Lord? Not even close. There will come a time.

Verse 13- Hebrews 8 was written AFTER the crucified Christ and the scripture clearly says that the old covenant (10 commandments) is WAXING OLD and GETTING READY to vanish. Aint vanished yet! Yes there are some books that claim the ten are obsolete. In them same books youll find in Hebrews 4 the name of Jesus being change to Joshua for the same reason.

Verse 10- When God writes His commandments in our heart you can bet the ranch we will be keeping them. Yes, even His sabbath. When will God write His laws in our hearts?

DEUT. 30 [4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will THE LORD THY GOD GATHER THEE, and from thence will he fetch thee: [5] And the Lord THY GOD WILL BRING THEE INTO THE LAND WHICH THY FATHERS POSSESSED, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. [6] And the Lord THY GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. [7] And the Lord thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. [8] And THOU SHALT RETURN AND OBEY THE VOICE OF THE LORD, AND DO ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which I command thee this day.

Its after the  gathering {in the twinkling of an eye} to the kingdom rest. Verse 8- Yes.... that would be the 10 commandments. Thats when God puts His law in our hearts. We will be keeping all His laws. Are we now? Does that include the sabbath

ISAIAH 66 [22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, SHALL ALL FLESH COME TO WORSHIP before me, saith the Lord.

Yup