Atonement

[Amazing Horse]

Jesus Christ did Atone for everybody ,and if you preach different be cursed as stated in Galatians 1:8-9.

 

1 John 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

That would be enought but there is more , not only he died for everybody but he even become sin for us , and God pour all wrath on him against all of our sins we commited and will ever commit .

 

2 Corinthians 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:10

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

God was pleased brusing his own Son on cross for you , who was bearing iniquity of the whole world.

 

Romans 5:8

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

 

Did Jesus die for murderers ? Yes he did

Did Jesus for adoulterers ? Yes he did

Did Jesus for his enemies? Yes he did

 

God don't want anybody to perish.

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

He gave everybody the chance to be saved , as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Whoever believe him , black , white , yellow short , tall , fat , murderer , person keeping 10 commandments .

Anybody can get saved it's not of works ! Ephesians 2:8-9 , and if you preach different gospel then go to hell.

 

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 minutes ago, Robert William said:

NOBODY who sins have been Atoned for will end up in Hell,  Scripture teaches that the majority of mankind will end up in Hell. Think man, if as you all are saying that Jesus Atoned for the sins of all humans then all humans are saved, justified by the blood of the Lamb.

Robert ,   we must never sin.  BUT if one does, we must have them REPENT asap, restore them back , INTO the fold.

FOR I say as long as one is in his or her sin they no longer follow the lamb.  HE is no minstir of sin.  THIS IS WHY the early church was asap greased lighting fast

to correct any of the brethren in any error.     We do have an advocate.  but if a believer stays in sin , wont repent , sins WILLFULLY , their wont be no more sacrifice for sins.

FOR THEY FOLLOW once again only darkness.  the dog can return to its vomit again.  THIS IS WHY we must be grave and sharp and exhort and encourage one another daily

so as our brethren err not.  AND if one does, convert them back asap.  do all JESUS said todo with the pattern of correction. IF the one in error does repent and is converted back

YOU have saved his soul FROM death and covered a multitude of sins.   YEAH our mission is that dire .    WE need bible reading BACK in churches ASAP

for it is the first step in keeping the people and ourselves sharp and reminded .  

[Robert William]

Amazing Horse, so much abuse of scripture, let's start with 2 Peter 3:9, who is the "us"? Look at the beginning of second Peter chapter three, the subject is the beloved, NOT all humans!

! John 2:2 is referring to the world of believers, and who can believe? You are completely bypassing the fall of man.

1Co 2:14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

 

 

[Robert William]

Amazing Horse, to help you with the word "us" please read Ephesians chapter one and Romans chapter eight and nine.

It's the predestined elect!

Edited September 12, 2017 by Robert William

[Robert William]

What is total depravity and is it biblical?

 

by Matt Slick
10/01/14

Total Depravity, sometimes called "total inability," is one of the five points of Calvinism, and is the "T" in the acronym TULIP1. Total Depravity states that each and every person (except Jesus, 1 Peter 2:22) is completely touched by sin in all that he is and does whether it's heart, soul, mind, body, thought, or deed. However, this does not mean that all people are equally bad or that all people are as bad as they can be. Not all are murderers. Not all are adulterers. Not all cheat. 

• "By total depravity, is not meant that all men are equally wicked; nor that any man is as thoroughly corrupt as it is possible for a man to be; nor that men are destitute of all moral virtues. The Scriptures recognize the fact, which experience abundantly confirms, that men, to a greater or less degree, are honest in dealings, kind in their feelings, and beneficent in their conduct. Even the heathen, the Apostle teaches us, do by nature the things of the law. They are more or less under the dominion of conscience, which approves or disapproves their moral conduct. All this is perfectly consistent with the Scriptural doctrine of total depravity, which includes the entire absence of holiness; the want of due apprehensions of the divine perfections, and of our relation to God as our Creator, Preserver, Benefactor, Governor, and Redeemer," 2
• "Total Depravity, The view, characteristic in Reformed theology, that sinfulness pervades all areas of life or the totality of human existence. This belief was one of the five canons of the Calvinistic Synod of Dort (1618– 19) and part of TULIP,"3

Can unbelievers do anything good at all?

The doctrine of Total Depravity does not state that unbelievers do not do good in any sense. We know that non-Christians can be morally upright in that some do not lie, do not steal, do not murder, etc. This is because the Scriptures teach that the Law is written on their hearts.

• "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus," (Romans 2:14-16).

So, again, Total Depravity does not mean that a person is as bad as he can be. It means that he is completely touched by sin in all that he is and does.

Effect of Total Depravity

The effect of Total Depravity on a person is his total inability to freely choose to come to Christ, trust in his Lordship, and be delivered from his sins. The unregenerate person is free to choose to do whatever he desires to do, but he will choose to act in a manner that is consistent with his sinful, fallen nature. In other words, no unbeliever left to his sinful free will, will ever choose to become a Christian. This is why there are verses in the Bible that state it is God who appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14), grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29), grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26), causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3), draws people to Himself (John 6:44,65), predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30) and adoption (Eph. 1:5) according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11), makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13), and works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).

Verses used to support Total Depravity

There are numerous Scriptures used by Calvinists to support the doctrine of Total Depravity. Following are some of them.

• Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick. Who can understand it?
• Mark 7:21-23, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."
• John 3:19, "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil."
• Romans 3:10-12, "as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one."
• Romans 5:6, "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."
• Romans 6:16-20, "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
• Ephesians 2:1, "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins."
• Ephesians 2:3, "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest."
• 1 Corinthians 2:14, "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

We can see from these verses that the heart is wicked and full of evil, that people do not understand and do no good, are helpless slaves of sin, dead in their sins, by nature children of wrath, and cannot receive spiritual things. Therefore, the unbeliever will freely choose to do what is consistent with his sinful nature. He will choose to behave in a sinful manner.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

19 hours ago, Robert William said:

Diomond, you are preaching confusion, if as you say that Jesus paid for the sins of all humans then all humans are clean and forgiven.

Wrong.    Just because the price was paid for all sins.  Don't mean all will be saved. 

I can have paid the price for all bread in the world.   But that don't mean all will eat.  ONLY THOSE WHO COME. will receive the pardon .

The truth is LIGHT has come into all the world , is the gospel being preached.  But many shun the light for they love darkness MORE . 

FOR GOD so loved the world that he did send the son , that all who believe in HIM shall be saved.   IF one believes not they remain IN THEIR SIN.

Why you think paul even said He is the savoir of the world.   HE IS........but if one believes this not.   THEY CANNOT BE SAVED, they are not of the truth.

and all in darkness remain in darkness and are in sin and have no hope.    As I said I myself , even being a man

could buy enough bread to sustain life for fifty people.  But if only thirty come , then only thirty have that bread.  THAT is an example.

JESUS DID pay the price of the sins of the entire world.  BUT UNIVERSALISM IS FALSE , because it teaches this means all are saved.

NOT IF THEY DONT COME TO THE ONE WHO DID THE SAVING.   I hope that makes it easier to understand.

[frienduff thaylorde]

18 hours ago, Robert William said:

What is total depravity and is it biblical?

 

by Matt Slick
10/01/14

Total Depravity, sometimes called "total inability," is one of the five points of Calvinism, and is the "T" in the acronym TULIP1. Total Depravity states that each and every person (except Jesus, 1 Peter 2:22) is completely touched by sin in all that he is and does whether it's heart, soul, mind, body, thought, or deed. However, this does not mean that all people are equally bad or that all people are as bad as they can be. Not all are murderers. Not all are adulterers. Not all cheat. 

• "By total depravity, is not meant that all men are equally wicked; nor that any man is as thoroughly corrupt as it is possible for a man to be; nor that men are destitute of all moral virtues. The Scriptures recognize the fact, which experience abundantly confirms, that men, to a greater or less degree, are honest in dealings, kind in their feelings, and beneficent in their conduct. Even the heathen, the Apostle teaches us, do by nature the things of the law. They are more or less under the dominion of conscience, which approves or disapproves their moral conduct. All this is perfectly consistent with the Scriptural doctrine of total depravity, which includes the entire absence of holiness; the want of due apprehensions of the divine perfections, and of our relation to God as our Creator, Preserver, Benefactor, Governor, and Redeemer," 2
• "Total Depravity, The view, characteristic in Reformed theology, that sinfulness pervades all areas of life or the totality of human existence. This belief was one of the five canons of the Calvinistic Synod of Dort (1618– 19) and part of TULIP,"3

Can unbelievers do anything good at all?

The doctrine of Total Depravity does not state that unbelievers do not do good in any sense. We know that non-Christians can be morally upright in that some do not lie, do not steal, do not murder, etc. This is because the Scriptures teach that the Law is written on their hearts.

• "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus," (Romans 2:14-16).

So, again, Total Depravity does not mean that a person is as bad as he can be. It means that he is completely touched by sin in all that he is and does.

Effect of Total Depravity

The effect of Total Depravity on a person is his total inability to freely choose to come to Christ, trust in his Lordship, and be delivered from his sins. The unregenerate person is free to choose to do whatever he desires to do, but he will choose to act in a manner that is consistent with his sinful, fallen nature. In other words, no unbeliever left to his sinful free will, will ever choose to become a Christian. This is why there are verses in the Bible that state it is God who appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48), chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4), calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9), chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14), grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29), grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26), causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3), draws people to Himself (John 6:44,65), predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30) and adoption (Eph. 1:5) according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11), makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13), and works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).

Verses used to support Total Depravity

There are numerous Scriptures used by Calvinists to support the doctrine of Total Depravity. Following are some of them.

• Jeremiah 17:9, "The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick. Who can understand it?
• Mark 7:21-23, "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man."
• John 3:19, "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil."
• Romans 3:10-12, "as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one."
• Romans 5:6, "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."
• Romans 6:16-20, "Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. 20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
• Ephesians 2:1, "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins."
• Ephesians 2:3, "Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest."
• 1 Corinthians 2:14, "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."

We can see from these verses that the heart is wicked and full of evil, that people do not understand and do no good, are helpless slaves of sin, dead in their sins, by nature children of wrath, and cannot receive spiritual things. Therefore, the unbeliever will freely choose to do what is consistent with his sinful nature. He will choose to behave in a sinful manner.

 

"For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus," (Romans 2:14-16

This is the perfect example of not reading the Letter as a whole.   paul was talking about gentiles WHO HAD COME TO CHRIST and were doing the law written on their hearts.

just read down a few lines .   this is the perfect example of how people misteach things.

Gentiles who do not know Christ cannot do the things from their heart of the law.   everyone read the whole of the letter and you willl

see that in the next few lines it explains this .   Paul was talking about gentiles who knew the LORD.   ONLY GOD< ONLY CHRIST , ONLY THE SPIRIT

puts the law on our hearts.  that alone.    This is why so many teachers are in error today.  they pick certain parts to fix THIER BELIEF, instead of reading

it as a whole and letting the truth do the revealing . 

[Robert William]

8 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Wrong.    Just because the price was paid for all sins.  Don't mean all will be saved. 

I can have paid the price for all bread in the world.   But that don't mean all will eat.  ONLY THOSE WHO COME. will receive the pardon .

The truth is LIGHT has come into all the world , is the gospel being preached.  But many shun the light for they love darkness MORE . 

FOR GOD so loved the world that he did send the son , that all who believe in HIM shall be saved.   IF one believes not they remain IN THEIR SIN.

Why you think paul even said He is the savoir of the world.   HE IS........but if one believes this not.   THEY CANNOT BE SAVED, they are not of the truth.

and all in darkness remain in darkness and are in sin and have no hope.    As I said I myself , even being a man

could buy enough bread to sustain life for fifty people.  But if only thirty come , then only thirty have that bread.  THAT is an example.

JESUS DID pay the price of the sins of the entire world.  BUT UNIVERSALISM IS FALSE , because it teaches this means all are saved.

NOT IF THEY DONT COME TO THE ONE WHO DID THE SAVING.   I hope that makes it easier to understand.

"paid the price" is not in scripture, it says Jesus Atoned, past tense, He Atoned for the predestined elect, please read Ephesians chapter one and Romans chapter eight and nine.

[frienduff thaylorde]

39 minutes ago, Robert William said:

"paid the price" is not in scripture, it says Jesus Atoned, past tense, He Atoned for the predestined elect, please read Ephesians chapter one and Romans chapter eight and nine.

stifes of words.     the WAGES of sin are death.    Someone PAID that price .    Its like so many that strive over the word trinity or rapture.

its an event or name , a description.   One thing I have learned , is to not get caught up with strivings , etc.    Most who have done this

no longer even point to the ONE who does and did save us .    My mission, and I do accept to choose it, IS to mainly point and remind the people of Christ and HIS sayings.

not to bend twist a single one.  but by His spirit to just live them out.     IF one wants to argue over a word that means the same thing as what even the other one is saying

that becomes empty and vain and leads to strifes.  Sin I will go out against full force.  OR false doctrines.  but a word that means the same thing .   no way.

HE did atone for our sins, HE did make reconciliation , HE did pay the price of GODS wrath against us in full.    Really its not worth wasting time over

a single word.   Its like some will argue over rapture.  Its not in the bible they say.   To which I say, OKAY then call it the TWINKLING of an eye if it makes ya happy

but it means and is describing the SAME EVENT.

[Robert William]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

stifes of words.     the WAGES of sin are death.    Someone PAID that price .    Its like so many that strive over the word trinity or rapture.

its an event or name , a description.   One thing I have learned , is to not get caught up with strivings , etc.    Most who have done this

no longer even point to the ONE who does and did save us .    My mission, and I do accept to choose it, IS to mainly point and remind the people of Christ and HIS sayings.

not to bend twist a single one.  but by His spirit to just live them out.     IF one wants to argue over a word that means the same thing as what even the other one is saying

that becomes empty and vain and leads to strifes.  Sin I will go out against full force.  OR false doctrines.  but a word that means the same thing .   no way.

HE did atone for our sins, HE did make reconciliation , HE did pay the price of GODS wrath against us in full.    Really its not worth wasting time over

a single word.   Its like some will argue over rapture.  Its not in the bible they say.   To which I say, OKAY then call it the TWINKLING of an eye if it makes ya happy

but it means and is describing the SAME EVENT.

You say He atoned and made reconciliation for us (past tense), please tell me who the "us" is.