Amazing Horse Posted September 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 364 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/02/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gary Lee said: Well horse, you have given me something to think about, and study. I always assumed the pearl was the Word, Jesus, salvation. I know this verse has been debated, but leaned toward my savior as worth a great price, worth giving up my life to seek. When I compare it to this verse Mat_7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. I assumed that verse considers "Pearls" the gospel, (holy) the Word, Jesus, before those who would trample it underfoot, and not see the value. To defile the precious Word, Jesus. Will have to study on this. This is the reason I'm here, to learn. To reason together. Thanks. I learned something from parable of tares yesterday before bed . Matthew 13 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Because i was thinking why God does not punish ungodly atheists with consuming fire right now , then i realised that maybe atheist's children or children of these children will turn to God , so God is long-suffering so he can gather as many people who love him as he can . If he told his servants to remove these tares he could remove wheat with them also . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Horse Posted September 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 364 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/02/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Like those free offers on cable and tv, it is the just pay the extra shipping charges that get ya. Salvation is not universal, but condemnation certainly is. Jesus paid the price of sin, which is condemnation (death), for some not all. All do not become saved, those that are they were know to Him and predestined to be saved from before the beginning. Jesus took death onto himself to pay the price of sin which is death, in order to redeem some. There is no just take a get out of jail free card. Life is not a board game, not at all. No one is saved from the penaly of sin without paying homage to Jesus by bowing a knee to him as their personal Lord God and savior. No one hears the offer of salvation, for the natural fallen mind of a man cannot comprehend it, unless the Holy Spirit enables that hearing. It is unnatural for that which is corrupt to embrace that which is pure, in fact it cannot be done. God can neither embrace corruption, nor can corruption be embraced by God. For within God there is no tolerance for imperfection. So all are condemned, except by the mercy and grace of God alone whom has reconciled the impossible. He has paid the price of sin for those He will save out from condemnation. And they are the ones given to Him by the Father, and are those called specifically by the Holy Spirit becoming via the Spirit, enabled to hear, comprehend, and heed that saving grace which is Jesus upon the cross. All others are still condemned and will die in the flesh condemned to eternal death. Salvation is not a free offer sitting on a counter at a storefront that one may enter at Anytime and partake of freely without condition. It is free in the sense that one cannot buy it with their own meritorious works, nor with their money, but it is not free nor is it universal, All will not accept Jesus as Lord God and savior, many will insist on making their own sacrifice and living as they wish when they want as often as they desire. Jesus does not allow for that to be the case. Though the saved are indeed free salvation is not. Jesus is the stumbling block! The block over which works and yes freewill falls headfirst to oblivion eternally separated from God and punished by God. When the Holy Spirit makes a specific call to a person to repent, the person called had better hear and heed the Spirit. He had not best think, oh I can visit this counter anytime and pick up free salvation at my own timing and will. I'm not calvinist sorry , it's not biblical 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 20, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 952 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,573 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,054 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said: I'm not calvinist sorry , it's not biblical 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Neither am I , but I read the Bible and believe it. I cannot pick and chose what I want to be the truth I must contend with and submit to what is written as it is written. I cannot throw out the letter to the church at Rome which very directly states: Romans 8:29-30English Standard Version (ESV) 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Horse Posted September 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 364 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/02/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Neighbor said: Neither am I , but I read the Bible and believe it. I cannot pick and chose what I want to be the truth I must contend with and submit to what is written as it is written. I cannot throw out the letter to the church at Rome which very directly states: Romans 8:29-30English Standard Version (ESV) 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. Forknowledge does not mean that you don't have free will . It just means that God knew that you would choose him so he alredy prepared for you tasks to do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted September 20, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 952 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,573 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,054 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) How do you like the word predestined? As in those He foreknew He also predestined. One really cannot cherry pick a part of a passage for if that is done one may contrive any meaning that suits their own conscience, which is weak in man to start with. The opening subject of this thread presumes salvation to be a free offering. I suggest that is not the case though salvation cannot be bought by mankind. It has been purchased at great price by God. In general it is offered to all, but in specific application it is only those that do receive the specific call by the Holy Spirit that ever repent. Whether each repents by their own will or by the sovereign power of God may be debated I suppose. As for this resistant to God, and yet born again, saint in Christ Jesus, I found it impossible to resist that specifc call from the Holy Spirit, not this side of my own sanity anyway. I would have been totally insane to resist futher when faced with the one on one exposure to God the Holy Spirit, and His declaration that I must turn to Jesus and stop resisting God's will for my life. Edited September 20, 2017 by Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Horse Posted September 20, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 364 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/02/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Neighbor said: How do you like the word predestined? As in those He foreknew He also predestined. One really cannot cherry pick a part of a passage for if that is done one may contrive any meaning that suits their own conscience, which is weak in man to start with. The opening subject of this thread presumes salvation to be a free offering. I suggest that is not the case though salvation cannot be bought by mankind. It has been purchased at great price by God. In general it is offered to all, but in specific application it is only those that do receive the specific call by the Holy Spirit that ever repent. Whether each repents by their own will or by the sovereign power of God may be debated I suppose. As for this resistant to God, and yet born again, saint in Christ Jesus, I found it impossible to resist that specifc call from the Holy Spirit, not this side of my own sanity anyway. I would have been totally insane to resist futher when faced with the one on one exposure to God the Holy Spirit, and His declaration that I must turn to Jesus and stop resisting God's will for my life. Love is only possible if you can choose to love somebody . Jesus himself said "if you love me keep my commandments " so you have chocie to love him or not . I alredy said how i read this word . As in those he foreknow ( he knew who will follow and accept him) he also predistinated ( he gave you job to to ) . Salvation is first step not completed work , after that you serve God . Paul writting these knew about it yet he choose to spread Gospel with world . He knew that predistionation and sharing gospel with people goes hand with hand . Romans 10 13or whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. I don't think God predistinated us to sit and watch tv and do nothing after we are saved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Neighbor said: How do you like the word predestined? As in those He foreknew He also predestined. One really cannot cherry pick a part of a passage for if that is done one may contrive any meaning that suits their own conscience, which is weak in man to start with. Scripture explains scripture. The passage in Romans is not as cut and dry as one would think at first glance when we consider other scripture as well. God is omniscient which means all knowing. God is "outside" of mans time. God knows the beginning and the end at the same time. God is the author of our faith. God draws us. .John 10: 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.… Furthermore, since we know by scripture that God draws us and God gives us the heart of repentance; we have limited free will. It is free will within the contraints of what God allows. God foreknew because God orchestrated the whole thing! I dont believe for one second that it was my idea to turn from my sinful life all on my own. I thought my wicked sin was fun while I was knee deep in it before God drew me! Why would I turn from it and come to hate it when I was deep in it for so many years? I didnt suddenly change my mind all on my own! God drew me! God gave me a heart of repentance 2 Timothy 2:25He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. 26Then they will come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who has taken them captive to his will.… We have free will within the confines of what God has allowed. He will never let any of those HE CALLED go . God will allow us to stumble and in fact he causes it sometimes to mature us in our faith. A faith untested is no faith at all. .John 10: 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand.… God is the author and the finisher of my faith Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Even when it appears that someone has turned away from God; they have not fully. God still has them. God is still in control. LIMITED FREE WILL! I corinth 5:5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 1:8 He will sustain you to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. Proverbs 23:14 You shall strike him with the rod And rescue his soul from Sheol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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