Michael37 Posted December 9, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 246 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,083 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 5,012 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted December 9, 2018 This world is also a testing place for those not predestined to be Calvinists: 1. Those not predestined to be Calvinists can be predisposed to believe that Augustine was a blatant heretic who spent 9 years in a Gnostic religion called Manichaeaism: - They accept that Manichaeaism was composed of Zoroastrianism and Buddhism, before also adopting misconstrued precepts of Christianity, and that Augustine's theology was an abomination contaminated with Neoplatonism. - They claim Augustine intentionally twisted Christian precepts to fit the philosophies of his day, particularly those of a Grecian nature, and purposely ignored Colossians 2:8-10 which reads "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And you are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:" 2. Non-Calvinists can claim Calvinists themselves admit Augustinianism as a philosophy frequently uses Platonic terms to set forth Christian concepts. (Baker's Dictionary of Theology, page 80, 1960.) - B.B. Warfield admits that Augustine's Christian philosophy was built "largely out of Platonic materials." (In "Calvin and Augustine" - page 319, 1956.) 3. Non-Calvinists can consider these among Augustine's false teachings: 1) “Purgatory” (in the book,“Immortality” by Loraine Boettner, pg. 135, 1956.) 2) Taught that sex was the great sin behind human misery. (Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology on “Augustinianism”, page 58, ) 3) Taught that sex was always shameful. (Augustine's City of God – On Original Sin – 2.42.) 4) Taught that sex was sinful if not for the purpose of procreation. (Augustine's City of God – On the Morals of the Manichaeans – 18.65.) 5) Taught that the “Virgin Mary” was sinless and promoted her worship. (“History of the Christian Church” volume 3, page 1021, 1910 by Philip Schaff.) 6) Intercession of the saints. (“History of the Christian Church” author Philip Schaff , pages 434-435, 441.) 7) The use of relics and the miracles attributed to them. (“History of the Christian Church” author Philip Schaff – pgs. 459-460.) ? Originated infant baptism and falsely taught that infants who were not baptized were eternally condemned.(Augustine's "City of God" - On the Merits and Forgiveness of Sins -1.33, 1.35, and 3.7.) 9) Augustine falsely taught that no one can be sure that they are saved. (In "City of God" - On Rebuke and Grace - 40. ) He states, "For who of the multitude of believers can presume, so long as he is living in this mortal state, that he is in the number of the predestinated?" (Apparently at a stretch Calvinists believe they can reach some form of assurrance of their salvation but they make it difficult for themselves.) 10) Augustine accepted polygamy over monogamy. (Augustine's City of God - On Christian Doctrine - 3.18, 3.27. ) 11) Originated Western monasticism, (In "Religion and the Rise of Western Culture" by Christopher Dawson, page 47, 1957.) 12) Advocated the use of force/violence in dealing with “heretics” who did not agree with him. (Augustine's City of God, “On the Correction of the Donatists” – book 4, section 17, section 18, book 5, section 19, 20, book 6, section 21-24.) 4. Non-Calvinists can see Augustine's advocating the use of force as responsible for the genocide of millions of Bible believing Christians during the Inquisition: (See also Philip Schaff, “History of the Christian Church” vol. 3, page 144, 1910.) - Augustine states the following regarding the use of force/violence: “Why, therefore, should not the Church use force in compelling her lost sons to return, if the lost ones compelled others to their destruction?……” (in City of God, “On the Correction of the Donatists” – chapter 6, section 23.) 5. Non-Calvinists can maintain that Calvin idolized Augustine and was his ardent admirer: - Calvin emulated his master’s ways when he ruled the city of Geneva with an iron fist imposing and enforcing his Calvinist doctrine through floggings, imprisonments, banishments, torture, and burnings at the stake. - Every aspect of life in Geneva was under his tight control including the way women wore their hair, jewelry, the number of dishes allowed in the kitchen, etc. 6. Non-Calvinists can classify Calvin as a control freak: - He justified force and violence in the name of Christianity. 7. Non Calvinists can view Calvinism as irrational and immoral: - Augustine and Calvin promoted their false doctrines as biblical truth and imposed them on the church. - Their false doctrines have been handed down for centuries as cherished dogma and changeless data. - Augustine also states the following regarding the Catholic Church: “The Catholic Church alone is the body of Christ, of which He is the head and Saviour of His body. Outside this body the Holy Spirit giveth life to no one, seeing that, as the apostle says himself, “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us;” but he is not a partaker of the divine love who is the enemy of unity. Therefore they have not the Holy Ghost who are outside the Church.” ( Augustine in City of God, “On the Correction of the Donatists”, 11.50.) - Calvinists irrationally adhere to Augustine's gnostic heresies but not to his heretical Catholic Church. For those not predestined to be Calvinists, but to be conformed to the image of God's Son, the arguments of Calvinism are endured by them with patience, as light afflictions of this present world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uber Genius Posted December 11, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 36 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 657 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 244 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted December 11, 2018 Though I'm simpathetic to your inference that Calvinism is deeply flawed, you have assembled a lengthy ad hominem attack which is fallacious and in no way weakens Calvinism. it could be the case Augustine held false beliefs and was a bad person set undeceiving all Christians and further that Calvin unwittingly used Augustine (as well as Aquinas, and Anselm) to form his beliefs. But this does nothing to engage the beliefs and the inference from the data of scripture. Suppose I give an argument with premises and data why I think Abe Lincoln was the best POTUS of the 19th Century. Now supposed I secretly thought he was best because he had a marvelous beard, and I too have a similar beard, and my favorite rock group is ZZ Top again because at least secretly I am enamoured by their beards. So what. I still gave evidence that supported premises in arguments that Abe was best. Those arguments are true or false based on the premises and evidence not my attributes such as sanity. As you look up ad hominem fallacy also include genetic fallacy. There are great inductive, abductive and deductive arguments against Calvinism. But you don't engage those arguments here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted December 12, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,734 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,547 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) To add to what Uber has said, what many anti calvinists ignore is that John Calvin, John Armenian and Martin Luther were all contemporaries, and frequently wrote letters to each other, and all had flaws and had similar views on how to handle heretics. They often would write each other in debate and what not, but were very much friends. And if you go on a witches hunt to find flaws in any of them you will find them. Martin Luther was an anti-semite, and believed in burning people at the stake, for example. These men were products of their time. They had flaws, and were in every definition "extremists" because they had to be. The Catholic church was executing anyone who dared speak against their teaching, the only ones who were safe were those who were able to draw a following large enough that the Catholic church couldn't touch them, and like today, extremism attracts people. So were these men perfect...no they had many flaws. Doesn't mean that God didn't use them. What im saying is their flaws doesnt dictate whether or not their doctrine is sound or not, in fact if all you can do is attack the mens character its a good indicator that you cannot argue with their doctrine. Edited December 12, 2018 by The_Patriot2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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