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About Michael37

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  • Birthday 09/23/1954

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    New Zealand
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    Simple In-Home Fellowship, Landscaping, Creative Writing, Selective Internet Fellowship.

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  1. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    Fair enough, Da Puppers, The Lord does use me to give meaning to the Scriptures (not exclusively) and I am happy to be used in this way. I've had no sense of being attacked, though, just of difficulty getting to grips with your OP. I thought the quote from Matthew Henry would be an indication of my own view but I see there is more to be said. I prefer to use the Greek word harpazo rather than the Latin-derived word rapture, but regardless of my textual preference here in a nutshell is my position in alignment with Scripture which I believe gives the order of things: One event with many parts - Mar 13:24-27 (24) But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (25) And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (26) And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. (27) And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. See you there at the time I hope ☺️.
  2. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    Who said there was? Not me. I'm drawing firstly on Revelation 13 where the first beast is shown rising from the sea, the sea being symbolic of every people, multitude, nation, and tongue; in other words "sinful humanity" as per Rev 17:15 (15) And he says unto me, The waters which you saw, where the whore sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. That which in the affairs of mankind consistently, continually rises out of the sea of sinful humanity has been, is being, and will be until the end the beastly human desire for IMPERIAL CONTROL. This beastly desire is manifested in 7 great tyrannous empires and symbolised in the 7 heads of the beast. Watch these 7 heads because something particulary significant happens to them in Rev 17:9-10. They morph into a fresh metaphorical state. The number 7 is important because it relates to perfect completion. But back to Revelation 13 where the first beast has risen to show us not just its 7 heads of "complete corporate control", the purpose of heads in general being for control, but also its 10 horns of "strength and power to enforce", with the number 10 important because it relates to extreme fulfillment. We are also shown its 10 crowns on its 10 horns so that added to the extreme fulfillment of the need for strength and power to enforce complete corporate control, there is the extreme fulfillment of the first beast's "absolute sovereignty", something which the devil in the illustration of the red dragon does not have, there being only 7 crowns on its 7 heads and not the 10 we count on the horns of the beast, if we are being diligent (Rev 12:3). Revelation 13:11 shows us the second beast coming up out of the earth, and this speaks of "vain humanity", the first man being formed from the dust of the earth and subsequently partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil growing in the earth, and this leading to the vain attempts seen down the centuries of all who seek to "become as gods." All this beastly vain humanity of the ages will one day be concentrated in one man, the false prophet who will actually claim to be God and will fool everyone except the elect. When this man is revealed along with his mark and the number of his name, the coming of the Lord for His bride will be the next event. As for these two beasts, the one being the summation of evil empires, and the other personifying Satan's desire to be God, well they do their thing and are then cast into the lake of fire, later to be joined by Satan himself. The so called Holy Roman Empire was just part of the 7th head that was seen to morph into a mountain, as did each of the other 6 heads, with the control factor (heads) becoming the prominence factor (mountains) for the 7 crown-wearing heads of the Red Dragon to revel in, O how Satan loves to have the prominence, and the 7 satanic kings of Rev 17:10 are indicative of the 7 kingdoms they have the sovereignty of, likewise the 8th king which incorporporates them all. I think I'll deal with the 10 kings that turn on the great whore of Babylon another time, here on W.C.F. as the different views on the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to show to His servants, are further explored. Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
  3. Michael37

    Dealing with dry times? Rejoice!

    ABC = Adversity Builds Character. (+ Always Be Charitable).
  4. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    This has always been my belief. When the Wicked One is revealed the end of this age is nigh. Beware of confusing issues with straw man arguments, please.
  5. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    We agree Rome is the 6th Mountain-Head-Kingdom, I say Political Rome in particular as per its 1st, 2nd and 3rd Reichs (research will bear this out), and the so-called Holy Roman Empire. At the time the Revelation was communicated to John, 5 Mountain-Head-Kingdoms had fallen, Political Rome was still standing, and there was another Mountain-Head-Kingdom yet to come, the 7th. That 7th Mountain-Head-Kingdom is Papal Rome, which is here as prophecied. Political Rome is the Wounded 6th Head that heals, is back in business as it were, plying its trade in every part of the world it can, open to all forms of religion and embracing whatever philosophy suits it purposes to keep man at the apex of government. Thus revived Political Rome together with Papal Rome eventually arrive at the One World Government/One World Church scenario. When all the necessary infra-structure is in place, as illustrated in the metaphor of the beast from the sea, a man of wicked nature with a satanic alliance empowering him, as illustrated in the metaphor of the lamb-like beast from the earth (Rev 13) will be prominent as the final false prophet, aka the Anti-christ (after many antichrists who assist and prefigure the final version). Yes, call the 8th entity Apollyon by all means, yes it is the scarlet beast that the Whore of Babylon rides until her fall. This iteration of IMPERIAL CONTROL (good word that, iteration) is the summation of all that has preceded, and destruction results, which is why I call this 8th Beast manifestation, when corporate control is complete(OWG/OWC), when executive enforcement is extreme (Christians killed for refusing the mark etc.), and when temporal tyranny is total (P.O.P.E.), PERDITIOUS ROME. Praise God for the time when His restraint is removed and He strives no more with the exalting of human government in the combined strength of wicked human nature and all that is of Satan.
  6. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    Hi Da Puppers, Please don't mind Diaste and I skirting around your question - it's a perspective thing. Bringing your question into better focus I draw your attention to these paragraphs from Matthew Henry's Notes: "From these words it appears that some among the Thessalonians had mistaken the apostle's meaning, in what he had written in his former epistle about the coming of Christ, by thinking that it was near at hand, - that Christ was just ready to appear and come to judgment. Or, it may be, some among them pretended that they had the knowledge of this by particular revelation from the Spirit, or from some words they had heard from the apostle, when he was with them, or some letter he had written or they pretended he had written to them or some other person: and hereupon the apostle is careful to rectify this mistake, and to prevent the spreading of this error." "It is probable that the coming of Christ was represented in so much terror as to trouble many serious Christians among them, though in itself it should be matter of the believer's hope and joy; or else many might be troubled with the thought how surprising this day would be, or with the fear of their unpreparedness, or upon the reflection on their mistake about the time of Christ's coming: we should always watch and pray, but must not be discouraged nor uncomfortable at the thought of Christ's coming." Not sure what you mean in this sentence as highlighted above: "He odds explaining that the day of Christ IS his judgment upon all of the unbelievers of the gospel."
  7. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    THE BEAST & BABYLON METAPHORS A metaphor is a figure of speech that carries a meaning across from its likeness to the thing it represents. The first beast in Revelation 13 is a metaphor intended to mean the very real natural wickedness of man that rises from the sea of sinful humanity and manifests as very real IMPERIAL CONTROL. The second beast in Revelation 13 is a metaphor intended to mean the very real man of wicked nature that rises from the earth of evil vanity and manifests as the very real IMPERIAL CONTROLLER. The 7 heads of the beast are Imperial Entities and we learn these metaphorical heads morph into mountains which represent kings (Imperial Entities) as follows: Rev 17:9-11 (9) And here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits. (10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he comes, he must continue a short space. (11) And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition. Glory to God who knows all things and reveals the meaning of His Word, as follows: 1. Egypt (fallen) 2. Assyria (fallen) 3. Babylon (fallen) 4. Medo-Persia (fallen) 5. Greece (fallen) 6. Political Rome (fallen since Paul wrote to the Thessalonians and John wrote the Revelation) 7. Papal Rome (active) 8. PERDITIOUS ROME - on the way, watch this space. (Figuratively Rome is all exalted human government worldwide) The whore of Babylon is a metaphor depicting all the very real corruption, deception, and exploitation of sinful man attended by the chaos and confusion of Politics, Commerce, and Religion under the power of Satan. The final zenith of the natural wickedness of man results in the deposing of the whore of Babylon from atop this metaphorical first beast from the sea where she has become a restrictive burden, and in juxtaposition to this fulfillment of prophecy we have the man of wicked nature who is the second metaphorical beast from the earth, rising to the pinnacle of power to be enthroned in Christendom as a P.O.P.E (President Of Planet Earth), whence he imposes his mark on those who are deceived into receiving him as their prophet. The apostasy from genuine Christianity will facilitate the insinuation of this false (possibly Jesuit) prophet into the hearts and minds of false converts, leaving only a remnant who will be martyred for their faith during this great tribulation. Glory to God who knows all things and reveals His plans to His people.
  8. Michael37

    Three stages to the body of Christ

    Are you talking about numerical increase or spiritual growth as per the exhortation in these verses? Eph 4:11-16 (11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; (12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: (14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; (15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: (16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
  9. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    Up front, I can't agree with you Diaste, the concept of the metaphorical beast restraining God from carrying out His plan and purpose is distasteful to me. I see it the other way around, with the beast, ultimately a metaphorical term that portrays Imperial Control, being restrained by godly initiatives that will eventually be removed with catastrophic consequences.
  10. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    I have at least one revelation of the Godhead every day, quite a few some days.
  11. Michael37

    Naughty Figs...And Other Exquisite Verses

    Thanks for your reply, Adstar, I'm having a dig at language in this thread. Funny how some colours can be loud without actually making a sound. The thought is indeed that senses will be impacted. It is also interesting that among other things there is a conotation of guilt in the Greek kakos translated noisome. Thanks again.
  12. Michael37

    Naughty Figs...And Other Exquisite Verses

    I've just remembered this verse. Just how loud are these noisome and grevious sores going to be? Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
  13. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    The apostasy has to reach critical mass at which time the prophecy will be fulfilled with the unrestrained man of sin being identified by believers and worshipped by unbelievers as President Of Planet Earth (P.O.P.E.) resulting in megas thlipsis, literally big pressure or great tribulation until the harpatzo. That's how it reads in this neck of the woods.
  14. Michael37

    One REVELATION of Jesus or Two?

    The Scripture itself gives you the answer, Da Puppers. Apostasy first, then Restrainer removed, next Man of sin revealed, the Coming of the Lord, and Gathering of the saints. 2Th 2:1-3 (1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, (2) That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
  15. Michael37

    Son of Perdition

    The term "son of perdition" is used first in John 17:12 where it refers to Judas. John 17:12 (12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Acts 1:16-20 (16) Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. (17) For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. (18) Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. (19) And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. (20) For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.