jc49 Posted June 12, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Our fellowship as Christians is not based upon the timing of the rapture, but upon the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Some have accused those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture as "escapists," trying to avoid all trouble or persecution. On the contrary, the Church always has been and always will be persecuted as long as we are in the world, but this is not the same as the wrath of God poured out during the Tribulation. We believe the rapture occurs before the Tribulation because scriptures overwhelmingly support a pre-tribulation rapture, as opposed to the amillennial, post-millennial, and post-tribulation theories. We can't be dogmatic over something that hasn't occurred yet. Whenever He comes is His will, which should be sufficient for whatever position you hold. In the meantime, God has given us scriptures to examine. The following is a list of scriptural proofs that indicate the rapture will be Pre-Tribulation. 16 Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection. The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, does not mention a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming. Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection. This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection. Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted. In the Old Testament, two different pictures are painted of the Messiah-one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these scriptures, we see they predicted two separate comings of the Messiah-the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King. In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have two pictures painted which don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted June 13, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2005 Excellent post, jc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zayit Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Proof #7: The 24 elders have their crowns. After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place. Do you believe these 24 are Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahavah Posted June 13, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 172 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2005 Proof #7: The 24 elders have their crowns. After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place. Do you believe these 24 are Christians? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good question!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahavah Posted June 13, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 172 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2005 I don't know ... this Pre trib belief is kind of dissapointing for me..I mean..I'm actually looking forward to seeing the auctual tribulation come. The fire rain down from heaven, the earth breaking up ect... I beleive He will protect His chosen ones during and through the tribulation. Think about..what a time to be LIVING. But that's just me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zayit Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 He did it for Noach, and Lot, and he promises to do it again, nu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahavah Posted June 13, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 172 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/13/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2005 He did it for Noach, and Lot, and he promises to do it again, nu? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ken..I do agree!!!! That's why I have No problem with the Tribulation. Let it come. Let me be the one to populate the earth with many Shimshons. OY.. did I say that? OY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Posted June 13, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2005 Proof #7: The 24 elders have their crowns. After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place. Do you believe these 24 are Christians? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes!!! Luke 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous. The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place, THATS THE ONLY TIME THE CHRISTIAN WOULD BE REPAYED AT According to this verse!!! And yes! the 24 elders are Christians, and they got they're rewards, but doesn't luke say at the resurection? YES! then how can the get the rewars before the 7 years tribulation? The only way possable for the Bible not to contradict it self would halve to mean that the Resurection is before the trib! Revelation 5:9-10 And they(24 elders) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed USto God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zayit Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Here I see him speaking to 12 Jewish boys, Luke 22:28-30 "But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zayit Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 THE "24 ELDERS" God gives the arrangement of the tribes, as they were to be grouped around the Tabernacle, in Numbers, chapters 2. In the following chapter, He goes into further detail, giving the assignments of the tribes of the three children of Levi as well as their children (a total of eight grandchildren). The tribes of Levi did not have a place with the other twelve, rather these children and grandchildren were placed in the area closest to the Tabernacle. The three children were Merari, Gershon and Kohath. The eight grandsons of Levi were; Libni, Shimei, Amram, Izehar, Hebron, Uzziel, Mahli and Mushi (see Numbers 3:17-20). This resulted in a final total of 24 groups, represented by 24 elders, (all mentioned by name) who surrounded the Tabernacle. The breakdown is as follows: (1) Moses' family (12) The 12 tribes (3) The tribes of the 3 sons of Levi (8) The tribes of the 8 grandsons of Levi There is an obvious parallel to the book of Revelation: Revelation 4:4 - "Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting." Alternatively, the twenty-four elders could be associated with either the 24 courses of the priesthood that each served twice a year for one week throughout the year. Some also consider the possibility of them being the heads of the 12 tribes plus the 12 Talmidim of Yeshua (the 12 "apostles.") As the twelve tribes can be seen in the diagram above surrounding the tabernacle, so too in Revelation are these tribes part of the "gates" surrounding New Jerusalem as seen in Revelation: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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