16 Proofs.....

[Trinity]

Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. (REVELATION 4:4)

Who are these 24 elders? Surely in scripture no one has ever seen them before in the Old Testament when prophets like Isaiah and Ezekiel had visions of God's Throne and the Cherubim and Seraphim, those 4 angelic creatures (LIVING CREATURES as John calls them). I don't think Isaiah or Ezekiel saw them. John was the first one to see them. It is important to note that Revelation 1 took place in John's time - A.D. 95 and Revelation 2 - 3 takes pllace NOW because we are living in the CHURCH AGE. Revelation 4 - 22 are future. So in summary (Look at REVELATION 1:19):

Revelation 1 ---> PAST ---> "What you have seen"

Revelation 2 - 3 ---> PRESENT ---> "What is now"

Revelation 4 - 22 ---> FUTURE ---> "What will take place later"

So the 24 elders are future when taken in context to the flow of Revelation. If I was to see a vision of heaven, I probably wouldn't see the 24 elders. The 24 elders are literal 24 elders in heaven that are representing a larger body up in heaven. In 1 CHRONICLES 24, twenty-four priests were appointed by King David to represent the entire Levitical priesthood. So when the 24 priests met together in the temple of the Lord, the entire priestly house was represented. That was in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, elders were appointed "overseers" of churches started by the apostles and were "shepherds of the church of God.

(ACTS 20:28)" So the 24 elders have a nice CHRISTIAN ring to it since an elder was a position in the church. Therefore the 24 elders are representing the glorified Raptured church. Now the term - elder though is a word affiliated with the church - is not significant enough evidence to prove a PRE-TRIB RAPTURE, the next few points will. Now we know that the 24 elders is the church but lets look at how John describes them. THEY WERE DRESSED IN WHITE AND HAD CROWNS OF GOLD ON THEIR HEADS. Look at REVELATION 3:5, those in the Church at Sardis (Reformers church) will be dressed in white. The Bible talks about the JUDGMENT SEAT (BEMA SEAT) OF CHRIST (2 CORINTHIANS 5:10; 1 CORINTHIANS 3:11-15). This JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST is when Christ opens the books (DANIEL 7:9-10) and judges Christians by the works they did for the Lord. Each deed and motive for them will be judged and tested by fire. If their deeds and motives survive by the fire then they will be rewarded but if it isn't then the believer will be as one SAVED BUT ESCAPING THROUGH THE FLAMES (1 CORINTHIANS 3:15).

Believers will receive crowns in heaven as evident in 1 CORINTHIANS 9:25-27, REVELATION 2:10, 1 PETER 5:2-4, 2 TIMOTHY 4:8, 1 THESSALONIANS 2:19-20. Since the 24 elders are dressed in white and have crowns of gold, which were the result of promises made by Christ to the Church for their rewards for their deeds for him, then the 24 elders are a literal 24 elders that represent the larger body of Raptured believers. Since the 24 elders are seen with their awards in Revelation 4:4, we can conclude that the church as a whole received their award and that the JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST is after the Rapture. Since the 24 elders arrive on the scene before the Tribulation starts (Revelation 6), we can conclude that the Rapture is before the Tribulation and therefore is PRE-TRIBULATION!

http://www.geocities.com/stat23mj/prophecy/pretrib.html

[Trust & Obey]

He did it for Noach, and Lot, and he promises to do it again, nu?

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Yes... and no.

Noah was preserved through judgment and is a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT.

Whereas, Enoch was raptured (Gen 5:24) and he is a picture of God removing His church before judgment.

Lot... correct.

Daniel... don't forget about Daniel. While Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were miraculously preserved by God through judgment in the fiery furnace, Daniel was completely absent from this period of time. Intersting...

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT. Whereas, Daniel is a picture of the Church being absent during the GT.

And remember, if the the Church goes through the GT then Paul's desire of comfort falls flat on its face (1 Thes. 4:18).

[Guest Zayit]

In 1 CHRONICLES 24, twenty-four priests were appointed by King David to represent the entire Levitical priesthood.

That is not correct, there were 24 divisions, and these names were not names of decendants of Levi, but the names of the same 24 in the heavenly temple.

[Guest Zayit]

He did it for Noach, and Lot, and he promises to do it again, nu?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes... and no.

Noah was preserved through judgment and is a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT.

Whereas, Enoch was raptured (Gen 5:24) and he is a picture of God removing His church before judgment.

Lot... correct.

Daniel... don't forget about Daniel. While Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were miraculously preserved by God through judgment in the fiery furnace, Daniel was completely absent from this period of time. Intersting...

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT. Whereas, Daniel is a picture of the Church being absent during the GT.

And remember, if the the Church goes through the GT then Paul's desire of comfort falls flat on its face (1 Thes. 4:18).

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Enoch was 'raptured' where is that written? And if so, where is he now?

[Trinity]

In 1 CHRONICLES 24, twenty-four priests were appointed by King David to represent the entire Levitical priesthood.

That is not correct, there were 24 divisions, and these names were not names of decendants of Levi, but the names of the same 24 in the heavenly temple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was an example of how it was in the Old testament it has nothing to do with the Heavenly temple Just an example, if you read it through you will see it

[Guest Zayit]

In 1 CHRONICLES 24, twenty-four priests were appointed by King David to represent the entire Levitical priesthood.

That is not correct, there were 24 divisions, and these names were not names of decendants of Levi, but the names of the same 24 in the heavenly temple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was an example of how it was in the Old testament it has nothing to do with the Heavenly temple Just an example, if you read it through you will see it

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What was an example? and what has nothing to do with the heavenly temple? And what should I read through?, I'm not following you.

[jc49]

He did it for Noach, and Lot, and he promises to do it again, nu?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes... and no.

Noah was preserved through judgment and is a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT.

Whereas, Enoch was raptured (Gen 5:24) and he is a picture of God removing His church before judgment.

Lot... correct.

Daniel... don't forget about Daniel. While Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were miraculously preserved by God through judgment in the fiery furnace, Daniel was completely absent from this period of time. Intersting...

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT. Whereas, Daniel is a picture of the Church being absent during the GT.

And remember, if the the Church goes through the GT then Paul's desire of comfort falls flat on its face (1 Thes. 4:18).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enoch was 'raptured' where is that written? And if so, where is he now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him. WEB

and Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. ASV

And Enoch went on in God's ways: and he was not seen again, for God took him. BBE

And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. DBY

And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. KJV

And Enoch walked with God, and he was not: for God took him. WBS

And Enoch walked with God, and he was not; for God took him. JPS

And Enoch walketh habitually with God, and he is not, for God hath taken him. YLT

and........................................

By faith, Enoch was taken away, so that he wouldn't see death, and he was not found, because God translated him. For he has had testimony given to him that before his translation he had been well pleasing to God. WEB

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God translated him: for he hath had witness borne to him that before his translation he had been well-pleasing unto God: ASV

By faith Enoch was taken up to heaven so that he did not see death; he was seen no longer, for God took him away: for before he was taken, witness had been given that he was well-pleasing to God: BBE

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him; for before his translation he has the testimony that he had pleased God. DBY

By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. KJV

By faith Enoch was translated, that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. WBS

Through faith Enoch was taken from the earth so that he did not see death, and he could not be found, because God had taken him; for before he was taken we have evidence that he truly pleased God. WEY

By faith Enoch was translated -- not to see death, and was not found, because God did translate him; for before his translation he had been testified to -- that he had pleased God well, YLT

and NOW ...Enoch is with GOD......surprise..we are going to meet him soon too..I pray...

[jc49]

In 1 CHRONICLES 24, twenty-four priests were appointed by King David to represent the entire Levitical priesthood.

That is not correct, there were 24 divisions, and these names were not names of decendants of Levi, but the names of the same 24 in the heavenly temple.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was an example of how it was in the Old testament it has nothing to do with the Heavenly temple Just an example, if you read it through you will see it

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I AGREE WITH YA!

[jc49]

He did it for Noach, and Lot, and he promises to do it again, nu?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ken..I do agree!!!! That's why I have No problem with the Tribulation. Let it come. Let me be the one to populate the earth with many Shimshons. OY.. did I say that? OY.

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After reading countless messages and articles that attack the pre-trib rapture, I've noticed a certain number of arguments that are repeatedly sent to me.

Instead of trying to answer every individual e-mail I receive, I thought it would be a good idea to create a web page that addresses the most commonly mentioned points of debate. This way, I can avoid repeating myself so many times; thereby, maintain my sanity.

Nowhere in the Bible, can you find the word "rapture"

It amazes me that some folks write to me, questioning the validity of the rapture, simply because the word "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible.

With 1 Thes 4:16-18 giving us such a clear description of the rapture, you would have to conclude that some people are just playing games with the Word of God. I could change the name of my site to

[Trust & Obey]

He did it for Noach, and Lot, and he promises to do it again, nu?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes... and no.

Noah was preserved through judgment and is a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT.

Whereas, Enoch was raptured (Gen 5:24) and he is a picture of God removing His church before judgment.

Lot... correct.

Daniel... don't forget about Daniel. While Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were miraculously preserved by God through judgment in the fiery furnace, Daniel was completely absent from this period of time. Intersting...

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego are a picture of God preserving Israel through the GT. Whereas, Daniel is a picture of the Church being absent during the GT.

And remember, if the the Church goes through the GT then Paul's desire of comfort falls flat on its face (1 Thes. 4:18).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Enoch was 'raptured' where is that written? And if so, where is he now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Genesis 5:23-24.

Gen 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

And, the writer of Hebrews mentions it, too.

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.