Few are chosen

[Karen C.]

From "The Spirit Helps Us Pray", R.L. Brandt and Z.J. Bicket.

Human reasoning proposes that since God is sovereign, He has everything under control, and since He knows everything, everything must be predestined in advance. This led to the idea that those predestined to be lost cannot be saved, and those predestined to be saved cannot be lost.This makes the warnings of Scripture; John 15:6, Heb. 2:1,3; 6:4-6; 10:26-29, meaningless.

When God created Adam and Eve He limited Himself by giving them the ability of choice. The presence of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden of Eden shows that. God could have programed us so that we would always do the right thing--but we would have been puppets, machines. He wanted us to be freely responsive to His love and care. Love must be freely given or it is not love. Similarly, salvation is a gift (Eph.2:8)freely given and must be freely recieved.

We can choose to accept God's way of salvation through Jesus Christ or we can reject it, but we cannot choose some other supposed savior or way of salvation and make it to heaven. That option is not open to us (Acts 4:12) Nor is a one time choice to follow Christ enough. We must continue to make daily choices and keep on following Him (Luke 9:23). For individually we are not predestined to do so. (Robert Shank, Elect in the SON: A study of the doctrine of election). What IS predestined is the WAY of salvation and the fact that the Church IS an elect, or chosen, body.

When we do believe in Jesus we enter into a fellowship with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ (1 John 1:3). God has given us a part. We must come to Him, and we must come in faith (Heb. 11:6). There is much biblical evidence that God often waits to act until we do our part. In the ministry of Jesus we He came to Nazareth "He could not do any miracles there, except lay His hands on a few sick people and heal them. And He was amazed at their lack of faith.(Mark 6:5-6). Many other examples can be given from Scripture and experience that God works when people ask.

God has also chosen that believers should be His agents, His servants, in the spread of the gospel and the building of Christ's Church, both spiritually and in numbers. God still deserves ALL the glory. As Paul said, "What after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom YOU CAME TO BELIEVE-as the Lord assigned to each his task. I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God made it grow" (1 Cor.3:5-6) This does not mean that what we do is not important. The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each one will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God's fellow workers"(1 Cor.3:8-9) We are also "Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making His appeal through us (2 Cor. 5:20) What a privilege! What a responsibility! In giving us this priviledge and responsibility God has chosen to make prayer the means of communication and the means by which we express our faith. Jesus said, "Ask the Lord of the harvest....to send out workers into His harvest field" (Luke 10:2). He wants us all to be "God's fellow workers"; and that means He works with us and we work with Him. Prayer is the God-chosen means to make this possible.

May you be blessed

[Guest racer]

elect,

Good afternoon!

[Guest Xan]

I don't suport Calvinism, but I support the degredation of Christians by Christians even less.  Racer, go back and read your posts.  I think it is horrible the way you are bashing elect.

[Guest Jipsah]

Human reasoning proposes that since God is sovereign, He has everything under control, and since He knows everything, everything must be predestined in advance.

Strawman. Calvinists do not believe that everything is pre-ordained.

[Guest racer]

jipsah,

The quote is basically just another rehash of the old Arminian saw: "Yeah, salvation is a free gift, and to get it, all ya gotta do is....".

[Guest Jipsah]

That still doesn't mean anything IF you were predestined to be lost.

[Guest racer]

Xan,

You said:  

I don't suport Calvinism, but I support the degredation of Christians by Christians even less.  Racer, go back and read your posts.  I think it is horrible the way you are bashing elect.

How about you go back and reread my post, then please show me where I bashed anyone.  

Then go back and reread jipsah's and elect's posts to Karen C, and tell me they did no bashing of their own.  (If what I posted is bashing)  

BTW, What'd I ever do to you?    I seemed to have rubbed you the wrong way without even meaning to?  

[Guest Jipsah]

Well, if you are a Calvinist, then salvation is free.

I am, and it is.

God chose you before you were, you didn't earn your salvation, it was handed to you on a silver platter.

By George you've got it!

[Guest racer]

jipsah,

You have it reversed.  The saved are saved because God chose them. The lost are lost because they choose to exercise their free will to rebel against God.  If anyone is lost it's of their own doing.

Still doesn't change the fact that you (nor elect) do not know for certain that you are one of the supposed ELECT.  And that statement above contradicts itself and the whole concept of Predestination.

Then why did Peter tell us to make our calling and election sure?  You know something he didn't?

I just know you may be perfect today, and decide to rebel tomorrow.  You can only work your salvation out through "fear and trembling."  No, I'm sure I don't know anything Peter didn't.  You and I just have different convictions about what he said.

Just so.  And He knows how miserable my heart is, just as He knows how bad off your are.

Mmmmmm.  Really?  How bad off am I.  Because I don't think I'm bad off.  I'm certainly not perfect, but then I never claimed I was.  Nor do I claim superiority or a status of being "elect."  I never operate under the delusion that my salvation is guaranteed through predestination.  I know I can lose my way.

But through His mercy, He chooses to save some of us from the otherwise inevitable results of our own wickedness.

No.  Through your supposed predestinaiton, you would have been saved before you were born.

You're trying to teach her by example, I presume?

Nope.  I'm definitely not one to be setting examples.  Just trying to show her how it feels to be spoken to like you're beneath someone who doesn't even know you.  Like I said, go back and take a look at how she spoke to Karen.      

It wouldn't matter in any case. If she's elect, she's elect whether you find her charming or not. If she ain't, she ain't, even if the world thinks shes spun from pure gold.

I agree.   :biggrin:  Where did I say she wasn't Charming?  

[Guest Jipsah]

And that statement above contradicts itself and the whole concept of Predestination.

Nope, that statement described very nicely the Calvinist view of predestination.