Prove/Disprove my theory

[AgnosticFront84]

I just thought I should mention - because not one has.  Someone has posted something like, "I used to be a Christian - but now I am not".  This is impossible according to Scripture.  Scripture says that Jesus will proclaim to the unsaved "I never knew you".  He will not say "I used to know you" or "I once knew you" - He will say "I NEVER knew you".  Paul says in Romans 6 that "those whom He justifies, he also glorifies" - no one gets off the bus on the way.

I just think that's important, because when someone says "when I used to be a Christian it wasn't as good as you guys say it was" - what ever their religious experience was - it wasn't one of genuine salvation.

1John says that some people dabble in Christianity for awhile and then leave - and John says "they went out from us, but they were not of us.  If they had been of us, they would have no doubt remained"

Also, in Jesus' parable of the sower, he describes 4 different types of people who get exposed to the truth.  Some appear to be genuine for awhile, but Jesus says they "have no root" - only the one that remains is genuine.

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You mean to tell me that anyone who rejects christianity at some point in their life was never a christian in the first place? You mean to tell me that all the praying, church services attended, youth camp, youth convention, sunday school, bible reading, talking to God, and the absolute BLIND FAITH I HAD IN HIM for 18 years of my life was nothing? I didn't dabble in christianity, my friend, it was indoctrined into my young lil head since I can remember. Just because I took my common sense and logic off the shelf and decided to use the brain that supposed God gave me, I was never anything to God....Well, then. All I can say is what a waste of 18 years!! For you to tell me I was never a christian just reminds me of the great people I used to know at church who always thought I was "never christian enough" for them.

[AgnosticFront84]

So...A-gnostic...stop FOOLING AROUND MATE..and if you despise Christ and the christians why don't you DEBATE your vain babblings in same NEW AGE club?

I mean,your arguments are not even interesting,so I'll give you HIS WORD again:

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*sigh*

PLEASE READ:

I just want to clear a few things up. First of all, I am not here to belittle, mock, or offend Christians. I do not hate nor despise born-again Christians. My parents are born-agains and I love them very much I do realize I am on your turf and my goal isn't to be as offensive as possible and live up to the stereotype of a non-believer. I study different religions but mainly focus on Christianity because I know it best and was the religion of choice in the location where I grew up. I am very open-minded and even open-minded to the fact that I may again be a born-again Christian. (highly highly doubtful, but, who knows?) If I offend anyone I'm deeply sorry and please accept my apologies. Before running straight to the Mods (it's already happened my first day here) please PM me and let me know you were offended and I'm sure I'll apologize. I may come across a little sarcastic at times, but it's just my nature, I've always been that way. I hope this clears things up a little.

And dude, if my arguments are so uninteresting then why do you keep posting in my thread?

[AgnosticFront84]

Kinda hard to draw someone to Christ by telling them that they are going straight to hell(or anything close to that statement).  I'm sure God is happy that AF is asking these questions.  Who knows, when times get really hard in life a Christian could be the one person that AF needs to bring him to the reality that Jesus is real.  We have to becareful not to shoot every non christian down.  And let's try to be sweet to each other...........and not like artificial sugar either

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I wish more christians were like you, don't ever change

[AgnosticFront84]

Repent of your sins.When you called GOD evil you blasphemed our LORD.I wouldnt have let you spoke past that before I would have banned you

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Wow! Banned Agnostic from the message board? That's right, we gotta stand up for God, make sure people toe the line or they are OUT. Gee whiz.

Agnostic, have you ever read The Great Divorce by CS Lewis? It is a very imaginative look at Heaven and Hell. Lewis imagines that Hell is a vast expanse of territory where everyone builds houses far, far away from each other so they don't have to have contact with anyone - they so despise each other and only regard themselves as significant. It is pretty interesting.

I am so with you on what is literal and what is metaphorical in the Bible. There is a certain amount of information that is fairly clear and straightforward and then a TON which is ambiguous and even "poetic", intended to give expression to an experience but not intended to be a "report" of the experience.

I am 37 and grew up in a fairly mainstream Protestant church. I sang in the choir, did lots of solo work, headed up "worship teams" the whole nine yards. About 5 years ago I grew increasingly frustrated by the message I had been getting every Sunday which seemed to contain 50% truth (as I saw it) and 50% stuff the pastor made up depending on how he felt that week. I realized that the Gospel, the central message of Jesus, the FOUNDATION of my faith, was only getting lip service. We spent 90% of our Sundays hearing messages on how we weren't living up to God's expectations and how displeased He probably was of us and how we needed to "come back to Him" yadda, yadda, yadda. All preached with the best intentions and with good motivations, I believe. Still, at this point in my life I am able to say that the Gospel is the one thing I hold firm to and all else is debateable as long as it does not violate that.

On Larry King's show he asked Billy Graham if God loved Satan and Mr. Graham could not answer. He simply said, "I don't know". I loved that answer! If you place your faith in Christ then you can say "I don't know" to TONS of stuff and still be OK. You can believe that Hell is a lake of fire (though I disagree), you can believe that everyone gets to Heaven, it doesn't matter. All you need be concerned about is in whom you place your faith, yourself or Christ. And even that doesn't concern me all that much (for others) because I know God is in control and He'll work with you just as He has with me, in His own way. All this chatter about what about this and what about that is just interesting intellectual exercise.

In any "movement" you'll have wackos, just ignore them

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I have not read anything by CS Lewis, although I should. But thank you for your nice post, I have really nothing to say except a smile

[AgnosticFront84]

I am curious why you quote scripture which is from the Spirit to "the churches" to someone who claims to be outside of the church?  Or do you just get to ignore the last verse?

If you've ever seen The Big Kahuna you'd understand why quoting scriptutre AT someone just gets people mad.

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Just let him go, let him go. He's like a rabid wolverine with the bible-quoting he gives me. Nod and smile and back away slowly....

[AgnosticFront84]

If God allowed only the existence of people who he knew would be saved, he would be displaying favouritism instead of justice,  Justice is to allow us to practice our freewill by choosing God over the world or vice versa.  By simply not allowing non-belivers to exist he would be depriving those "potential" souls of the ability to make that choice.

Unless they are created and allowed to make that choice between God and the world, there is no basis on which to decide whether or not they should have been allowed to exist in the first case. You catch my drift?

Sounds like a fun game, for God anyway. Let's see who will worship and who will reject me....ya know, for the fun of it.

Interesting reflection you had "maybe I'll be a born again christian again"

I've never heard of being born again again....

I'm sorry, my fault. I really need to brush up on my Christian terminology. Here's the correct translation: "Maybe I will re-dedicate my life to Christ after years of rejection and backsliding, and once again I will say hundala kundala shundala."

I hope one day you experience the second birth which Jesus spoke of,  It's amazing

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I hope so too.

[Guest tsauder]

Agnostic,

Is it the "package" of Christianity you've rejected or the Gospel? Could it be that you'd be willing to consider yourself reconciled to God because of Christ as long as you didn't have to believe in all the "stuff" that goes along with that?

[AgnosticFront84]

Agnostic,

Is it the "package" of Christianity you've rejected or the Gospel?  Could it be that you'd be willing to consider yourself reconciled to God because of Christ as long as you didn't have to believe in all the "stuff" that goes along with that?

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From my heart, I would say it is a rejection of christianity and organized religion in general. I lack the blind faith required to be a christian and I honestly doubt the divinity of Jesus Christ.

[jc49]

So...A-gnostic...stop FOOLING AROUND MATE..and if you despise Christ and the christians why don't you DEBATE your vain babblings in same NEW AGE club?

I mean,your arguments are not even interesting,so I'll give you HIS WORD again:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*sigh*

PLEASE READ:

I just want to clear a few things up. First of all, I am not here to belittle, mock, or offend Christians. I do not hate nor despise born-again Christians. My parents are born-agains and I love them very much I do realize I am on your turf and my goal isn't to be as offensive as possible and live up to the stereotype of a non-believer. I study different religions but mainly focus on Christianity because I know it best and was the religion of choice in the location where I grew up. I am very open-minded and even open-minded to the fact that I may again be a born-again Christian. (highly highly doubtful, but, who knows?) If I offend anyone I'm deeply sorry and please accept my apologies. Before running straight to the Mods (it's already happened my first day here) please PM me and let me know you were offended and I'm sure I'll apologize. I may come across a little sarcastic at times, but it's just my nature, I've always been that way. I hope this clears things up a little.

And dude, if my arguments are so uninteresting then why do you keep posting in my thread?

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You dude,

u have no idea the troubles I am having in my life,it is a long time now....troubles,test,difficulties,sickness,persecution and other amenities...

I am 56, I was where you are,with all that pompous pride against God...

the reason I answer your posts because I have compassion for you even though I think that you are really conviced to be a great theologian or philosopher...I have the compassion to give the Word with the hope that you come out of the snare of the devil and back to Jesus your Lord and Saviour..

if you do I gain nothing,surely no money no pride nothing,you would be the one to gain...but if you want to go lost for ever..well,I am sad,truly,because the HolY Spirit in me is not happy to see a soul in distress...but you say that you know better..don't you/

Well,if Christ wasn't with me I would put a bullet in my head cause life has not been kind to me,at all ,and I don't like this world ,but because of the great help of God I can sustain the trials and I know that my reedemer lives and the day is coming when all the sin and destruction and pain and sufference and unbelief in Christ IS COMING and in that day as HE LIVES,EVERY KNE SHALL BOW,in heaven earth and beneath the earth,and EVERY TONGUE SHALL CONFESS that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD.

Even His enemies will have to subdue to HIS GREAT GLORY and POWER,but it will not be pleasant not to be on His side,mate.

btw,I have nothing,absolutely nothing against you,and you make your choiches..

I hope you repent and choose Christ,there is a heaven to gain and an hell to shun...and once we are in the other side is GAME OVER for ETERNITY....with Him or WITHOUT HIM....

Shalom

your friend in Christ Roberto

[Kansasdad]

Hello Agnostic.

I for one have appreciated your post. You have been polite, and gracious. What I have found disheartening is that a Christian would suggest that you needed to be band, and others have just started spouting verse after verse. Both of which only drives people away for Christ not to him.

Please reflect on what Ovedya has posted, I think she has actually answered your question. And if she has in fact answered your question, are you truly open to re-evalutating your walk with God?

Here is another thought along the same lines. God created life which includes a soul. He sets it into motion, knowing that this will create more souls, all of which is good and pleasing to him. He also knows that if these people do, or don't do certain things it will lead to bad things. ie: By all knowing Gods knows that if you add this + this you will get good fruit. However if you add this + that, you will get fruit not quite as good. then if you add "not quite so good + another not quite so good you get "not good". God knowing all this, also knows that we humans don't have the ability to understand all the consequences of our actions, so he gave us some rules to live by. As long as we follow those rules we will always get good + good, it is when we don't follow those rules that we create the evil of the world. Now God knows our nature and he knows that we do not understand the full consequences of what we do, so by his grace he is willing to forgive us, not because we deserve it but because he created the life in us and he loves us. So it is not by the actions of God that we are condemned but by our own actions. But as you said God knew this going in. SO WHY. Think of the millions and billions of souls that were created through life that now have the opportunity to live eternity with God. If it weren't for this, no souls would ever have the opportunity.

God Bless,

Kansas Dad