Guest charlie Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 (edited) Like it or not the husband, the court, and Mrs. Shiavo's legal guardian have been vindicated. Most of you refuse to acknowledge this simply because you don't want to acknowledge it; you've been instructed not to. As much as many of you want this to be a murder it simply was not. Remember, thou shall not bear false witness. I saw the lady you're talking about Butero and her case was totally different than this one. Also keep in mind the court also decided that Terri's wishes were that she would not be kept in this vegetative state. As for the husband, he didn't become an instant adulterer and if the right had thing had been done sooner he might not have become one. His children were born within the past 5 years; poor Terri had been unconscious for 15 years by the time her feeding tube had been removed. In light of the FACT that there's no proof that he did anything criminal what do you think the chances are that he'll ever become "saved", "born again"???? Many people within the evangelical/fundamentalist movement have basically called him a murderer without proof. What kind of witness is that? Whether it is hard for liberals to believe or not, there are some of us who still consider life precious, regardless of quality of life. I find it extremely hard to believe ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. As someone who not too long ago was ultra-conservative; now moderate to liberal, I must say that too many people I've heard or have known on the far right adhere more to a culture of death than a culture of life......even if the rhetoric is life, life, life......the reality is death, death and more death. Wrong is right and right is wrong. I think the Terri Shiavo case, the rage against embryonic stem-cell research, the support for the Iraqi war are examples of how right and wrong have been twisted all out of proportion by some people on the far right. It reflects very badly on Christianity imo. As I stated in other posts, the judiciary must be stripped of it's God-like powers. The Congress should have the power to overrule an out of control judiciary and I will continue in this fight as long as it takes to hopefully bring about such a change. You sound like an authoritarian personality type. Be careful what you wish for. Edited June 24, 2005 by charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted June 24, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I dunno...Maybe sort of like basically calling a brother in Christ a murderer without proof....accusing him of leading us into an "immoral" and "illegal" war...etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I dunno...Maybe sort of like basically calling a brother in Christ a murderer without proof....accusing him of leading us into an "immoral" and "illegal" war...etc. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I haven't falsely accused anyone of anything. When I've made statements about our President and his administration or said why I doubt his sincerity as a Christian I've provided documentation to support my beliefs. Unfortunatly at this forum, a lot of my documentation has been purged. Can't have the flock actually look at it too long they might start agreeing with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerran Posted June 24, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 335 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/27/1975 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I don't have to accuse him on that one. The facts stand on their own, it IS an illegal and immoral war. Unlike the Schaivo case where there was no preponderance of evidence to support the accusations, in the case of the Iraq war, there is a lot of evidence. I am judging Bush by the fruits of his works, or the lack thereof, but then lets stay on topic. There were no such instructions, so your question is pointless. If the question is pointless then no harm should come from answering it. Are you going to answer the question I asked or just sidestep it exactly like a politician?? It's a fair question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted June 24, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted June 24, 2005 The fact remains that there are conjectures, assumptions, presumptions, and just flat out rhetoric. If there is such a mountain of evidence that The Iraqi war was concocted, where are the inpeachment hearings? Where are the inquiries? Where are the Congressmen and women calling for the President's head on a platter? Apparently there were questions surrounding the events leading up to and following Teri Schiavo's admision to the hospital. There was not complete and thorough investigation. Whether you are willing to believe it or not, there are valid questions, and they merit some looking into. I find it pretty hypocritical that you are so quick to question the character of a brother in Christ and his motivations on one hand and give Michael Schiavo a pass on the other. Especially when they are on an even keel with regard to the law. If both are innocent until proven guilty, then you should treat them both as such. Yet you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted June 24, 2005 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.01 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I'm sorry but this was between a husband and a wife. I only know if I was in that condition I would not want to be kept alive under any circumstances. Her parents loved her and that is why they lived in a dream world that she would recover. The autopsy put a end to that belief or should have. However her father said the coroner was wrong and she could have recovered. It's called denial and it happened to all of us at one time for another. It's over please just let the matter rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerran Posted June 24, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 335 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/27/1975 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I will not start a tangent on Iraq here Ovedya and give someone an excuse to close the thread. I am however going ask that people here be honest and answer the question I fairly asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted June 24, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted June 24, 2005 Okay, I'll drop the issue of the double-standard for now. What was the question, exactly? I came back in a little late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest charlie Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 The fact remains that there are conjectures, assumptions, presumptions, and just flat out rhetoric. If there is such a mountain of evidence that The Iraqi war was concocted, where are the inpeachment hearings? Where are the inquiries? Where are the Congressmen and women calling for the President's head on a platter? Apparently there were questions surrounding the events leading up to and following Teri Schiavo's admision to the hospital. There was not complete and thorough investigation. Whether you are willing to believe it or not, there are valid questions, and they merit some looking into. I find it pretty hypocritical that you are so quick to question the character of a brother in Christ and his motivations on one hand and give Michael Schiavo a pass on the other. Especially when they are on an even keel with regard to the law. If both are innocent until proven guilty, then you should treat them both as such. Yet you don't. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not the one being hypocritical here. You're giving a free pass to President Bush and his administration yet refusing to accept the outcome on the Shiavo case. Also keep in mind I voted for President Bush in 2000 and had been a republican all my life until recently so I wasn't "quick" to question his character; I bent over backwards for a long time to defend his character like so many of you continue to do. There is a mountain of evidence that the Iraq war was concocted. Some people are trying to get the word out and are calling for impeachment. There has been an inquiry which the republicans attempted to squash. The republicans control the house, the senate and the white house so they basically own all the ponies in the race. President Bush won't even answer any questions. That's why you're not hearing as much about this as say....the Monica Lewinsky scandal.....even though this is far worse. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/16/downingst.memo.ap/ You can find out more by using a search engine. I shouldn't have to spend my whole afternoon doing everyone's homework for them. Seems like whenever I've done that and spent my valuable time the thread with the info gets deleted. I'm not giving Michael Shiavo a free pass. I didn't say anything at the beginning because I just didn't know. Time has passed and many of the questions have been answered time and time again but some people refuse to accept the answers. See this site, it's very in-depth about the Shiavo case from beginning to the present and it even has a question and answer section. http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html As for this: Then quit hiding you cowradly jerk. I'd like to request that the moderators not reward this kind of bad behavior by deleting this entire thread as has happened so many times in the past. We're all grown-ups here so even these types of remarks need to stand imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerran Posted June 24, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 335 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/13/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/27/1975 Share Posted June 24, 2005 The question was: If there were clear instructions from Terri for no support measures in Terri's case would you support her being disconnected from the feeding tube? Yes or No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts