Salvation...Can it be lost???

[Artemus Prime]

I can do nothing but agree, as the compliments for SJ continue...

It's amazingly refreshing to see a fellow Christian intellectual (if I may be so bold) posting around these boards, bringing others to the light of the Truth, etc. You, my friend, have obviously been blessed by God, and I thank you for taking the time and effort to post at Worthy. Whether you know it or not, you've helped me immensely, just with some of your responses to others around here.

All that to say, you're devotion to the Truth, and to Christ who is its Author, is not overlooked. Thank you.

AP

[apothanein kerdos]

Wow, thank you very much guys. It really does mean a lot.

[justme7]

What do you guys think and please show Scriptural support.  This could be a biggie.  But I think it is a very important topic for Christians for many different reasons.  Who wants to get the ball rolling???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i do not think i could rightly answer that question. i personally think that just as we choose Christ, we might also choose to throw that down. that is not necessarily correct though. I have two scriptures that may give you insight or cause you to have more questions

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT AND HAVE BECOME PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND HAVE TSTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD AND THE POWERS OF THE AFE TO COME, IF THEY FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE, SINCE THEY CRUCIFY AGAIN FOR THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD, AND PUT HIM TO AN OPEN SHAME. FOR THE EARTH WHICH DRINKS IN THE RAIN THAT OFTEN COMES UPON IT, AND BEARS HERBS USEFUL FOR THOSE BY WHOM IT IS CULTIVATED, RECEIVES BLESSING FROM GOD; BUT IF IT BEARS THORNS AND BRIERS, IT IS REJECTED AND NEAR TO BEING CURSED, WHOSE END IS TO BE BURNED. -HEBREWS 6:4-8

FOR IF WE SIN WILLFULLY AFTER WE HAVE RECEIVED THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE NO LONGER REMAINS SACRIFICE FOR SINS, BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL EXPECTATION OF JUDFMENT, AND FIERY INDIGNATION WHICH WILL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES. ANY ONE WHO HAS REJECTED MOSES' LAW DIES WITHOUT MERCY ON THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. OF HOW MUCH WORSE PUNISHMENT, DO YOU SUPPOSE, WILL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY WHO HAS TRAMPLED THE SON OF GOD UNDERFOOT, COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED A COMMON THING, AND INSULTED THE SPIRIT OF GRACE? FOR WE KNOW HIM WHO SAID, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," SAYS THE LORD. AND AGAIN, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD. --HEBREWS 10:26-31

*i get from this that salvation can be lost; inadvertantly thrown down, by believers who do count it common, who sin willfully, who become hardened through sin (Heb 3:13)--perhaps this explains not everyone who says LORD, LORD, but those who do the will of My Father.

again this is only my reasonable understanding of these scriptures. God is able to do all things and all are His for the doing.

amber

[halifaxchristian]

What do you guys think and please show Scriptural support.

[apothanein kerdos]

Amber, perhaps you missed this part of my post

The attack moves on by misusing Hebrews 10:26-31. Surprisingly enough I am going to advocate that the King James is superior to the version you used in this context because the KJ gives a better definition of the Greek context. A proper interpretation of the beginning of verse twenty-six is,

[Remnantrob]

QUOTE

Naturally the reference to

[halifaxchristian]

To believe that someone was actually SAVED and actually KNEW JESUS CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOUR...SAVED...and LOST IT???....sounds quite ridiculous if you ask me. What a joke.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me (fact). And I give unto them ETERNAL LIFE (not 5 years of it); and they shall NEVER PERISH (not maybe in 5 years)..."-John 10:27,28

Some sheep are better followers than others. Some sheep get off of the beaten path and mess up. But what happens to these sheep?

"What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not LEAVE THE NINETY AND NINE...AND GO AFTER THAT WHICH IS LOST, UNTIL HE FIND IT? And when he hath found it, he LAYETH IT ON HIS SHOULDERS, rejoicing."-Luke 15:4,5

Can a sheep get lost? Absolutely. But does a sheep turn into a wolf? Absolutely not. A wolf does dress in sheep's clothing sometimes, however. But that's a whole other story.

God bless.

[apothanein kerdos]

Okay how come when you say something is a metaphor in the bible its okay but when I say something is a metaphor its still wrong(referring to the forever used in revelation in regards to torment of sinners)

Context, the way the language is used, what other verses say. Revelation isn't the only scripture that talks about eternal damnation. However, the scriptures in Hebrews are only said in this way and correlate with each other.

I don't understand why it wouldn't apply to Christians. We still consider ourselves sinners(saved by grace), do we not? noidea.gif I have no quarrels about the fact that struggling with sin or sinning is something all Christians face and that is why we recognize our need for a Savior(one who will save us from our sins because the wages of it is death). But, when we come into a relationship with Christ(knowledge of truth) then we should not deliberately sin (iniquity), for then we knowingly reject Christ's sacrifice for us. Sure, the character of God is mercy and looooooooooooong suffering, but there comes a time when you are accountable for not allowing God's power to be manifested in your life. 2 Timothy 3:5 always comes to my mind when dealing with this topic. Many of us have a form of godliness and deny the power that Christ has to set us free from sin, but it doesn't always have to be that way. This is why I personally reject the OSAS doctrine, besides the many other reasons that others have posted on this and many other threads.

I was refering to Christians but that this scripture doesn't refer to CHristians that sin once in a while or sin for a period, but Christians that fall into a lifestyle of sin.

Now you assert that if we continue in sin as CHristians we lose our salvation. If this is true then God is a very cruel God, for there is no quantification of how much sin we must commit before He takes away our salvation.

The biggest problem that people have against eternal security isn't a problem. People believe that if we are always saved then we can sin without consequence. This forgets that we are disciplined by God if we are His children, that we might sin but He will disicpline us. This verse in Hebrews explains part of that discipline is that if we do not stop He will render our works useless. Likewise, my post goes on to explain what all this discipline includes.

The fact is, when we accept Christ we enter into a covenant where ultimately we do no belong to ourselves but instead to God, so He has the ultimate say on how far we go in sin.

[Kansasdad]

Alright Burtero, I'll be your hucklberry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Super Jew I think this addresses your post, I would be interested in your thoughts. I put the quote above only to reference the corresponding post from you. It would have been too long of a post to include your entire post in quotes but I did want to provide a reference for any readers

Catholic Apologetics International

An Examination of Eternal Security

by Ben Douglass

Matthew 10:22; 24:13

The phrase which appears in both of these verses,

[apothanein kerdos]

What I want to know is how does that respond to anything I said? It brings up new scriptures. Would you like me to respond to his post while ignoring the fact the post I made brings up points that debunk his? If that's what you'd like, I will. Keep in mind it will take a few days as I'm already engaged in making another topic for OSAS.

Not to mention he's a Catholic apologist...even though many are very educated, they are famous for not having the best interpretations of scriptures. They are notoriously unreliable when it comes to interpretation and translation.