Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: This is a misinform statement...it's a prejudicial statement... Jesus said go and bring in my banquet all the people from the by way and the highways... Amen He did not say the holy people the priests... Are telling me we don't have to seek the Lord because He will save whoever he wants to save? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said: I am sorry Peter I must clarify. Unmerited favor. "... not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace...." 2Timothy 1:9 I was thinking about Noah when he found "grace in eyes of the Lord" (Gen. 6:8) Are you telling me we don't have to seek the Lord because He will save whoever he wants to save? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, David1701 said: God has told us how salvation works: we hear the gospel, he convicts us by the Holy Spirit and makes us born again, we repent and believe in Jesus Christ, then we are forgiven and given the Holy Spirit to indwell us. I did not say that we are involved in God's decision of whom to save. I said that we play a part in the salvation, by His grace. That part is to repent and believe the gospel, by God's grace. Look, do you honestly not realise that repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, which are gifts from God, are essential elements in salvation? The Bible could hardly be more clear about it! When did I say that salvation was dependent upon sinful man's choice? I did not. The Bible never says that salvation is based on sinful man's choice. Are you telling me that we don't have to seek the Lord because He will save whoever he wants to save? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, David1701 said: That's all true; but there's more to it than that... The freedom of choice that we have, is to choose according to our nature. If you have a sinful nature, then what you choose will be sin, because that is what you desire the most. Eph. 2:3-5 (EMTV) 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the senses, and were by nature children of wrath, as also the rest. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), The problem and the solution are both contained within this passage. A) The problem is that the natural man (since Adam fell) is, by nature, a child of wrath, who loves sin and hates God. He therefore fulfils the evil desires of his flesh and sense (as far as he is able), hates the light and will not come to it (John 3:19,20) that he might be saved. B) God's solution is to make some of us alive (make us born again), so that we willingly repent and believe the gospel. This is why the Lord told Nicodemus that we must be born again, in order to see and enter the kingdom of God (stated in John 3). Entering the kingdom of God is by faith in Jesus Christ; therefore, we must be born again, in order to have faith in Jesus Christ, which agrees with A). There is another point, and that is that faith in Jesus Christ is never said to be a result of man's choice - never. It is a gift from God. Phil. 1:29 (KJV) For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; I disagree with you. I think it's faith of Jesus Christ and not faith in Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 hours ago, David1701 said: Your post to which I responded, contained no Scripture, only rationalisations/philosophy. If you post Scripture, that's fine; if you post opinions, without Scripture, not so much. All of my posts are based on Scripture. I post nothing based on my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, Alive said: IMO--there are things that we can know and understand and there are things that we can only grasp in part. There are times when attempting to build a construct around what we can only know in part, becomes a distraction or more. On this subject, IMO the scriptures clearly state that we are foreknown, preordained and foreordained. These things can't be argued well. It is also clear that there are choices to be made. Humans can make choices. Jesus said that no man can come to the Father unless the Father draw him. We know Salvation is by Grace through Faith. We know that a son of Lucifer has zero capacity to reach God and be righteous. We can make all these points on either side of the issue. I think there is a nexus where predestination, Grace and choosing meet, but we don't fully understand it. Add to this conundrum, defining what specific dynamic we are addressing.....before or after regeneration. Before or after the history and reality of the cross, resurrection and ascension in which we were (past time) included. It is not so simple as one human choosing or not choosing the Free Gift. Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand... and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Your analogy maybe brilliant, but I don't get it. Maybe you could expound on some of the scriptures provided. I don't think there were cars in the scriptures. You had a verse saying "God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." Because one knows all things does not mean they know the future. I know all things about driving. That too does not mean I know the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterlag Posted October 10, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 It seems logical to say that if God works with His own logic and science that He created, then there is stuff He simply cannot do. It seems clear He cannot lie. He probably cannot make a square circle. And if He is unlimited in goodness and wisdom, then He probably cannot be bad or unwise. Can He be limited with qualities and properties in other ways? Well, I never thought God could have choices. I always thought of Him as being perfect and therefore His way was the only way. I just never thought of Him in any other way. I now believe Christianity is more about a personal God who gets involved with His creation and not about an idea or principle. For God to say yes to creating this particular world means God had to say no (we think) to other possibilities. And so putting all this together seems to suggest we have a Bible that literally portrays God as a personal agent, which implies a shared context for both God and humans. This is really a big deal because now I know I also have choices on how and how deep I interact with Him. Jeremiah repeatedly speaks of the conditional "if" in connection to both the clay (Israel) and the Potter (God). If Israel repents, then God will relent. This type of relationship God offers His people is not one of control and domination, but rather one of an awesome love and vulnerability. Many churches teach God called certain people because the New Testament has places where it talks about those who God called. I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call. In Ephesians 1:4, it says God chose us in Christ beforehand... and in Revelation 17:8, it says certain names have been written in a book from the foundation of the world. It's the group, the body of Christ that is foreordained from the foundation of the world, and not specific individuals selected by God for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Peterlag said: You had a verse saying "God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." Because one knows all things does not mean they know the future. I know all things about driving. That too does not mean I know the future. Obviously God knows the future otherwise prophesy would not exist. Jeremiah 1:5 - “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Psalm 139:13-16 - For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; read more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: Obviously God knows the future otherwise prophesy would not exist. Jeremiah 1:5 - “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Psalm 139:13-16 - For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; read more. Job 10:8-12 - ‘Your hands fashioned and made me altogether, And would You destroy me? ‘Remember now, that You have made me as clay; And would You turn me into dust again? ‘Did You not pour me out like milk And curdle me like cheese; Hosea 13:16 - Samaria will be held guilty, For she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, Their little ones will be dashed in pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open. Isaiah 49:1 - Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me. Edited October 10, 2020 by Saved.One.by.Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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