M45510G1C Posted August 18, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 627 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2005 Most of the passages you quoted have already happened. His people are being brought back to their land now. It won't be long before they are ready to receive the truth about Messiah as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ's Free Servant Posted August 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 197 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,461 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1949 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Most of the passages you quoted have already happened. His people are being brought back to their land now. It won't be long before they are ready to receive the truth about Messiah as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know those scriptures were describing things that have already happened. The purpose of them was to establish how God worked in the past with the Jews when they turned against God and followed other gods. They are still rebelling against God by not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. In the NT it talks about how God turns people over to Satan when they refuse to obey God. He lets them go their own way and suffer the natural consequences. I am not Jewish and I don't know anyone who is Jewish so I have never had cause to study the relationship of the Jewish nation with God in the NT. I was speaking of God's way of dealing with the Jews in the OT. I know that the NT says that God disciplines those he loves and he punishes those who are his, which applies to believers, but I don't know how that applies to the Jews. They are still his chosen people. Yet, they don't believe in Jesus, so they have been cut off from the vine. I admit I don't know much about what the NT says about the Jews of today, other than what it says to all of us. This will be a subject I will need to look into. I just know that God is bringing the Jews to the place where they will accept Jesus as their Messiah. As far as what you said about His people being brought back to their land now, what do you mean? They are having to give up their land. Is Gaza not part of the land God gave them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansasdad Posted August 18, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Numbers 14:41-43: "But Moses said, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 18, 2005 Share Posted August 18, 2005 They are still rebelling against God by not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. In the NT it talks about how God turns people over to Satan when they refuse to obey God. Yes, but the dynamics are different now. The Christian "Church" has been the worst enemies of the Jewish people. Their rejection of Jesus has been a knee-jerk reaction to being called Christ-killers, and having been kicked out of most "Christian" nations throughout the last 1700 years. Jews have been blamed for faltering economies and even for the black plague that raged in Europe during the middle ages. It was not until after thousands of Jews had been murdered for being the suspected cause of the plague did the papacy finally come to admit that it was not their fault. Their rejection of Christ is not so much theological as it is emotional. They do not reject Jesus for the same reasons that Jews in the first century did. Niether does their rejection of Christ occur in a vacuum. It is time for more Christians to be intellectually honest about Jewish-Christian history and realize the atrocities that were done to Jews in the Name of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 18, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2005 Shiloh definately hit on it, but the truth is, most Jews reject Christ because of how Christians treated them. Christians have been the representation of Christ to the Jews. Does it justify their rejection? No, some Jews, including those on this board, have overcome it. At the same time, we have to acknowledge why they reject Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansasdad Posted August 18, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted August 18, 2005 They are still rebelling against God by not accepting Jesus as the Messiah. In the NT it talks about how God turns people over to Satan when they refuse to obey God. Yes, but the dynamics are different now. The Christian "Church" has been the worst enemies of the Jewish people. Their rejection of Jesus has been a knee-jerk reaction to being called Christ-killers, and having been kicked out of most "Christian" nations throughout the last 1700 years. Jews have been blamed for faltering economies and even for the black plague that raged in Europe during the middle ages. It was not until after thousands of Jews had been murdered for being the suspected cause of the plague did the papacy finally come to admit that it was not their fault. Their rejection of Christ is not so much theological as it is emotional. They do not reject Jesus for the same reasons that Jews in the first century did. Niether does their rejection of Christ occur in a vacuum. It is time for more Christians to be intellectually honest about Jewish-Christian history and realize the atrocities that were done to Jews in the Name of Jesus. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe I am being thick headed here but,what does that have to do with what is going on today. I would not argue that terrible things have happened to the Jews, by a number of people, including so called "christians" a long time ago. But how is that relevant to this discussion. The question is, "Is this truly unbelievable event that we are seeing right before our very eyes part of the fulfillment of prophesy". Honestly this event is so unbelievable I can not imagine it is not. I think we are witnessing biblical prophesy in process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kansasdad Posted August 18, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,227 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/19/1964 Share Posted August 18, 2005 Shiloh definately hit on it, but the truth is, most Jews reject Christ because of how Christians treated them. Christians have been the representation of Christ to the Jews. Does it justify their rejection? No, some Jews, including those on this board, have overcome it. At the same time, we have to acknowledge why they reject Christ. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you are very correct, We have been a very poor representation of Christ. Sad indeed. And thus, we Christians are very much responsible for people rejecting Christ, and look at the suffering it has brought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christ's Free Servant Posted August 22, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 197 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 2,461 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/31/1949 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Shiloh definately hit on it, but the truth is, most Jews reject Christ because of how Christians treated them. Christians have been the representation of Christ to the Jews. Does it justify their rejection? No, some Jews, including those on this board, have overcome it. At the same time, we have to acknowledge why they reject Christ. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think you are very correct, We have been a very poor representation of Christ. Sad indeed. And thus, we Christians are very much responsible for people rejecting Christ, and look at the suffering it has brought. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And, if that is so, then what are we going to do about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M45510G1C Posted August 22, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 627 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/15/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2005 As far as what you said about His people being brought back to their land now, what do you mean? They are having to give up their land. Is Gaza not part of the land God gave them? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not going to touch on your whole post as I agree with much of what has been said about it already. G-d deals with Israel the same way today as He did in the OT. He does not change. Now about their land. Yes, they did give up the Gaza. However, very soon, for the fist time in ~2000 years Israel will be home to the largest population of Jews in the world (right now it is the USA). So yes, they are giving up land, land that I beleive they will have back in the not-too-distant future. But at the same time more and more are making aliyah every year. And, if that is so, then what are we going to do about it? I think that people have been asking that for quite soem time now. Pray, pray pray. I think that G-d working in their hearts is the only way that they will see the truth at this point, and they WILL see it, its just a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igh Posted August 22, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 36 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2005 the land is Gods as is the whole world, but the jews do not love God or serve him. They will receive as they always have for not trusting God punishment. And they cannot blame palestinians. No One Can. Period. They are an instrument used by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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