Fundementalist terrorism kill four in Gaza

[apothanein kerdos]

No they are people, many of whom have already been driven out of their homes once, who continue to live in a state of insecurity and are denied the basic civil rights we take for granted. They are ordinary people like you or me who deserve the same rights as anyone else does.

And if they didn't happen to blow civilians up they might see those civil rights to the fullest extent.

As it is now Israel has built hospitals, schools, given free health care, and many, many other things to the palestinian people. In return they [israel] have had night clubs blown up with Israelis and Arabs inside. Basic human rights? Are you really this ignorant Amor or does your ant-semetism just blind you that much? Pay attention to the Citizen Law of 1950 in Israel which states any "displaced Arab" is allowed to come back to the Israeli state and enjoy citizenship. That law is still in effect today. Basic human rights? Since when was it a right to blow yourself up along with other civilians? The offer has been out on the table for 55 years now to return to Israel and opperate under the Israeli government as citizens. How is that not meeting human rights? Name the human rights violations by Israel to the Palestinian people.

Well if North American Christian Zionists are so keen to see a Jewish state in the land now occupied by Palestinians, why not carve them a decent Palestinian state out of the North American continent. You've got plenty of excess fertile land and nice towns and cities. After all, if they can be moved like cattle from one end of the Middle-East and North Africa to the other, they can be moved a few more miles over the Ocean. Personally I think either option would be unviable and silly.

Because we don't want terrorist in the US, plain and simple. Might as well send them to nations that breed terrorist for a living. Likewise, you missed the point (as you are fond of doing). They hate JEWS. We could offer them [Arabs] the entire United Staes, Mexico, Canada, and the flipping moon...but as long as Jews were living in the middle east it wouldn't be enough. That's the point you're missing because your hatred of Jews refuses you to see it.

[amor]

[ They hate JEWS. We could offer them [Arabs] the entire United Staes, Mexico, Canada, and the flipping moon...but as long as Jews were living in the middle east it wouldn't be enough. That's the point you're missing because your hatred of Jews refuses you to see it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, as with Yod I would ask you to examine my past posts and highlight any of them that are anti-semitic, and expose me to everyone here; if you can't find any then retract. Smearing your opponents is not a just or Christian approach to debate. You find it very easy to detect hate (whether it exists or not is another question) simmering inside others; but you seem to have a lot of internal anger yourself.

As to Arab hatred of Jews, well remember the holocaust, the pogroms, the inquisition were very much European events. By and large Jews in the Muslim Middle East have faced much less persecution than Jews in Christian Europe.

[apothanein kerdos]

[ They hate JEWS. We could offer them [Arabs] the entire United Staes, Mexico, Canada, and the flipping moon...but as long as Jews were living in the middle east it wouldn't be enough. That's the point you're missing because your hatred of Jews refuses you to see it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, as with Yod I would ask you to examine my past posts and highlight any of them that are anti-semitic, and expose me to everyone here; if you can't find any then retract. Smearing your opponents is not a just or Christian approach to debate. You find it very easy to detect hate (whether it exists or not is another question) simmering inside others; but you seem to have a lot of internal anger yourself.

As to Arab hatred of Jews, well remember the holocaust, the pogroms, the inquisition were very much European events. By and large Jews in the Muslim Middle East have faced much less persecution than Jews in Christian Europe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As to Arab hatred of Jews, well remember the holocaust, the pogroms, the inquisition were very much European events. By and large Jews in the Muslim Middle East have faced much less persecution than Jews in Christian Europe.

Why do I need to highlight your anti-semetism when you produce a statement like that? That is the equivalent to me saying, "Oh blacks have been through slavery and much worse, so why complain when they can't get the job they want because of their color?"

[nebula]

Sigh.

Amor, if you believe that the "Palestinians" will accept Israeli citizenship or that they will live in peace with Israel if they they have control of Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem -

Then you are not listening to what they, the Palestinians, are saying.

[halifaxchristian]

[ They hate JEWS. We could offer them [Arabs] the entire United Staes, Mexico, Canada, and the flipping moon...but as long as Jews were living in the middle east it wouldn't be enough. That's the point you're missing because your hatred of Jews refuses you to see it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, as with Yod I would ask you to examine my past posts and highlight any of them that are anti-semitic, and expose me to everyone here; if you can't find any then retract. Smearing your opponents is not a just or Christian approach to debate. You find it very easy to detect hate (whether it exists or not is another question) simmering inside others; but you seem to have a lot of internal anger yourself.

As to Arab hatred of Jews, well remember the holocaust, the pogroms, the inquisition were very much European events. By and large Jews in the Muslim Middle East have faced much less persecution than Jews in Christian Europe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To deny Jesus' Chosen People, the Jewish nation, a national homeland in Israel...is hate. What else could it be???

[amor]

[ They hate JEWS. We could offer them [Arabs] the entire United Staes, Mexico, Canada, and the flipping moon...but as long as Jews were living in the middle east it wouldn't be enough. That's the point you're missing because your hatred of Jews refuses you to see it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, as with Yod I would ask you to examine my past posts and highlight any of them that are anti-semitic, and expose me to everyone here; if you can't find any then retract. Smearing your opponents is not a just or Christian approach to debate. You find it very easy to detect hate (whether it exists or not is another question) simmering inside others; but you seem to have a lot of internal anger yourself.

As to Arab hatred of Jews, well remember the holocaust, the pogroms, the inquisition were very much European events. By and large Jews in the Muslim Middle East have faced much less persecution than Jews in Christian Europe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To deny Jesus' Chosen People, the Jewish nation, a national homeland in Israel...is hate. What else could it be???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't deny Israel's righ to exist, show me a post where I have said that. As to Gaza and the West Bank. Yes, I believe that the Israeli's should withdraw from those territories and many Israelis believe that too. It is also true I support the ongoing evacuation of the Israeli settlers in Gaza, that removal was ordered by Ariel Sharon. Presumably by your rather peculiar logic that makes him an anti-semite too! It's odd that you, who as I have highlighted above, are clearly in denial about the involvement of protestants in the holocaust, should be so keen to accuse me of anti-semitism, because I support one of the policies of Ariel Sharon and his Likud government.

[amor]

Double post

[amor]

Sigh.

Amor, if you believe that the "Palestinians" will accept Israeli citizenship or that they will live in peace with Israel if they they have control of Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem -

Then you are not listening to what they, the Palestinians, are saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sigh, sigh, sigh indeed. My comments about granting full citizenship to the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, where made primarily to highlight that that option would be unacceptable to all the main parties in Israel. Why? Because it would create a de-facto Palestnian state. One with if not in the present, in the very near future with a Palestnian Arab majority. This clearly would not be a problem for Palestinians as they would be in control. See here for a Likudite view of the situation

That leaves only three alternatives the continuance of the current situation where Palestinians live in what is effectivley an Israeli colony denied full civil rights that is not substainable in the long term and will lead to continuing and escalating violence: if you don't believe me look at the history of South Africa, French Algeria, Dutch indonesia, BritishIndia, British East Africa, the British occupation of Cyprus or indeed the British occupation of mandate Palestine in the 1930's and 1940's, and the British occupation of the 13 American colonies. The second option would be the expulsion of the Palestinian population, an option that might be favoured by some here, but which wolud leave Israel at almost certain war with here Arab neighbours, and isolated in the international community, not even the most Republican US regime would support here on that. The third option is the two, viable, states solution.

Another article about the demographic challenge faced by Israel here.

[Guest shiloh357]

Sigh.

Amor, if you believe that the "Palestinians" will accept Israeli citizenship or that they will live in peace with Israel if they they have control of Gaza, the West Bank and Jerusalem -

Then you are not listening to what they, the Palestinians, are saying.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sigh, sigh, sigh indeed. My comments about granting full citizenship to the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, where made primarily to highlight that that option would be unacceptable to all the main parties in Israel. Why? Because it would create a de-facto Palestnian state. One with if not in the present, in the very near future with a Palestnian Arab majority. This clearly would not be a problem for Palestinians as they would be in control. See here for a Likudite view of the situation

That leaves only three alternatives the continuance of the current situation where Palestinians live in what is effectivley an Israeli colony denied full civil rights that is not substainable in the long term and will lead to continuing and escalating violence: if you don't believe me look at the history of South Africa, French Algeria, Dutch indonesia, BritishIndia, British East Africa, the British occupation of Cyprus or indeed the British occupation of mandate Palestine in the 1930's and 1940's, and the British occupation of the 13 American colonies. The second option would be the expulsion of the Palestinian population, an option that might be favoured by some here, but which wolud leave Israel at almost certain war with here Arab neighbours, and isolated in the international community, not even the most Republican US regime would support here on that. The third option is the two, viable, states solution.

Another article about the demographic challenge faced by Israel here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My comments about granting full citizenship to the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, where made primarily to highlight that that option would be unacceptable to all the main parties in Israel. Why? Because it would create a de-facto Palestnian state. One with if not in the present, in the very near future with a Palestnian Arab majority. This clearly would not be a problem for Palestinians as they would be in control.

Actually the problem with giving them a state in Gaza and the West Bank is that both areas would become platforms from which to launch terrorist attacks. That is what people like you don't seem to get. The Palestinians don't want a state next to Jerusalem, and Mahmoud Abbas has made that clear, as have many in the Palestinian leadership. They are looking for the complete annihilation of Israel. What they have succeeded in doing in some degree, is getting the nations of the world to strongarm Israel into giving up what the Arab world could not take militarily.

The two-state "solution" is not a solution because it is not what the Arab world in general and the Palestinian people in particular are demanding. They consider the entire nation of Israel an illegal occupation. They consider all of Palestine including Israel proper, Arab Land, period. They will not stop until Israel is removed entirely, and have stated such. It is not the mere words of a few radicals. It is Arab/Muslim Middle East policy.

That leaves only three alternatives the continuance of the current situation where Palestinians live in what is effectivley an Israeli colony denied full civil rights that is not substainable in the long term and will lead to continuing and escalating violence:

There are no Israeli "colonies." That is absurd. Israel did not no into Gaza or the West Bank to establish colonies. Those were unclaimed territories won legally by Israel in an act of self defense. That hardly qualifies as a "colony" The Israeli towns were established legally, and no Arabs were displaced in the creation of Israeli town in the West Bank and Gaza.

The only people denying civil rights to the Palestinians are the Arabs. The Arabs were offered, three times in the 20th century, a Palesitinian state on the remaining 25% of the British mandate. They rejected it each time. The Palestinians would have a state even today, had it not been for the incompetent Arab leadership of the previous decades.

Israel is not the problem, and they do not owe the Palestinians a state. They certainly do not owe the Palestinians anything after 60 + years of violating Jewish human rights.

Take your grievances to the Arabs and let THEM carve out a nation for the refugees they created. If they want a nation for the Palestinians, they have the room and the oil revenue to make it happen.

if you don't believe me look at the history of South Africa, French Algeria, Dutch indonesia, BritishIndia, British East Africa, the British occupation of Cyprus or indeed the British occupation of mandate Palestine in the 1930's and 1940's, and the British occupation of the 13 American colonies.

None of which bear any similarity to the Palestinians' situation.

[JohnS]

Sigh, sigh, sigh indeed. My comments about granting full citizenship to the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, where made primarily to highlight that that option would be unacceptable to all the main parties in Israel. Why? Because it would create a de-facto Palestnian state. One with if not in the present, in the very near future with a Palestnian Arab majority. This clearly would not be a problem for Palestinians as they would be in control. See here for a Likudite view of the situation

That leaves only three alternatives the continuance of the current situation where Palestinians live in what is effectivley an Israeli colony denied full civil rights that is not substainable in the long term and will lead to continuing and escalating violence: if you don't believe me look at the history of South Africa, French Algeria, Dutch indonesia, BritishIndia, British East Africa, the British occupation of Cyprus or indeed the British occupation of mandate Palestine in the 1930's and 1940's, and the British occupation of the 13 American colonies. The second option would be the expulsion of the Palestinian population, an option that might be favoured by some here, but which wolud leave Israel at almost certain war with here Arab neighbours, and isolated in the international community, not even the most Republican US regime would support here on that. The third option is the two, viable, states solution.

Another article about the demographic challenge faced by Israel here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Israel is already at war with her Arab neighbors, where you been? Israel has embarrassed them time and time again. That is the reason for the cowardly terror attacks.

There is no alternative. Terrorists can't live anywhere, not in Israel, not in the US, not iin Iraq, not in Spain, not in Great Britain. Certainly not all of the "Palestinians" are terrorists, but there are enough wolves among the sheep that they just can't live among humans. You just can't have deranged people blowing up schools in society, or busses, or subway stations, or discos, or flying jet airplanes into buildings. Not anywhere. And there is absolutely no situation that justifies it. If suffering was a justification for cowardly terror attacks, then the Jews would have more reason for it than anyone. Get rid of the terrorists and the rest can live anywhere they want.

The "palestinians" worst nightmare would be their own independent state and they know it.

I heard that the UN was paying for signs that said "first Gaza, then Jerusalem". Anyone else heard that?