Leonard Posted September 10, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted September 10, 2005 [Luke 22:36. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks...can't believe I never saw that...but then again there's a lot of things I don't see. The reason Christ wanted a sword is so that He could show compassion to the ones who were basically taking Him to His death. He showed them a miracle that night and yet they still killed Him. Matt. 26:52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in it's place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword". Also when Christ told them to go buy a sword, He didn't say "swords" He said "sword". Just one. And when He was informed that they had two, He said "that is enough". Only one sword was needed to cut off that ear. And once that was accomplished He told them to put it away. That's what I see. If you see something different, maybe I'm wrong, explain it to me. Anyway...you all have nice weekend. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted September 11, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 11, 2005 THe problem is that many Christians tend to forget that the New Testament deals with faith and the sharing of that faith. This is why violence is never mentioned but is condemned, in that the Christian faith is not to be spread by violence by instead by example and word of mouth. Using war to bring about the Gospel, or causing any mental or physical harm to lead a person to the Gospel is wrong according to scripture. However, the New Testament doesn't deal with the government that much and how a Christian is to react when pressed into military service. This is where the Old Testament and portions come into play, and we see that yes, it is okay for Christians to engage in war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITE OWL Posted September 11, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 535 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1957 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Leonard Read the original post....then read my reply. The first thing I said was "I'm not a pacifist" and the last thing I said was "I'm not a pacifist". This person wanted some scripture ref., I gave him two. Then you came along and showed me that passage in Luke, now he has more. I don't know why you're so angry. Super Jew You explained that far better than I ever could. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted September 11, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Leonard Read the original post....then read my reply. The first thing I said was "I'm not a pacifist" and the last thing I said was "I'm not a pacifist". This person wanted some scripture ref., I gave him two. Then you came along and showed me that passage in Luke, now he has more. I don't know why you're so angry. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry I sounded angry to you! I'm not at all..... I think I was conflating your posts with the original poster's however! Makes my response perhaps irrelevent, but certainly I have no anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomotalking Posted September 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,838 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1991 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I'm not a pacifist but this might be what you're looking for. Rev. 13:10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity, he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Mark 12:31 And the second like it is this, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these. Like I said, I'm no pacifist but those two verses to me say, do not kill. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What's a paci....whatever? Sorry...I'm a thicko!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted September 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 115 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 8,281 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/03/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/30/1955 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Sorry...I'm a thicko!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You lith'p too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NITE OWL Posted September 12, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 535 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/02/1957 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I'm not a pacifist but this might be what you're looking for. Rev. 13:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted September 12, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted September 12, 2005 The interesting thing to me is that there is already so much violence in our country that Christ does condemn, that we really don't have to worry to much about not partaking in the violence of war which governments control. I think you can be a Christian pacifist and be in the military. I see so much in our culture that glorifies violence, all of the violence on t.v. all of the violence which we accept in sports (not rough games like football, but the fights and name calling which seem to now go along with it), domestic violence, violence with our tongues, road rage, murder, assault, etc. there is violence all around us which is exactly what Christ was saying we cannot partake in. I think I see some strains of this infecting the Christian faith in a kind of Rambo attitude toward being a male Christian. It is not okay for men to fight, unless they are directly protecting their family. But if someone calls a man out to fight, or if he is threatened or belittled, we have a duty as Christian men to practice our faith, to be Christian pacifist and to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2005 I think it depends on the motive for the war. Usually it is greed. The desire for power, wealth, land, etc. As Christians I would argue that we shouldn't be involved in the military. Now, my belief in this goes against the teaching of the church group that I am affiliated with. But, I think for myself and I hold to views that are consistent with the Bible, not a denomination. This is the passage that tells me Christians should not engage in wordly wars or participate in the military: Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. We are not of this world. Therefore, we should not fight as the world does. We are simply pilgrims passing through. 1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Phi 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: We need to fight for spiritual things, not carnal things. Spiritual things being the Word of God and the souls of men. There are many noble battles going on in the world, but the question is how important are they compared with the Great Commission? The good is often the enemy of the best. Let's not get distracted by side-issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted September 13, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2005 'a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.' Ecclesiastes 3:8 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't like disagreeing with you, but... We live in New Testament times, not Old. I'm not saying we should throw it out or disregard it, there's an abundance of knowledge there. I don't see in the New Testament where we are instructed to or given the freedom to pick up arms against our fellow man. It simply goes against His commandments. Not trying to be difficult, it's just what I see. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jesus told His disciples if they didn't have a sword, they should even go to the extremes of selling their winter clothes to buy one. What do you think they used swords for.....backscratchers??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Leonard, I agree. The sword was for personal defense. I don't think the sword passage is endorsing wars, which is the subject of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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