Guest JAR61 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Perhaps if we pose the question as such we can better approach the notion of salvation. If our spiritual life is about submission. If our new life is about death to the carnal and putting on the spiritual new man, then in examing salvation we can view it from this perspective: Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord? No. Rom 10:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted September 19, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 19, 2005 Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree 100%. I do believe in, what has been coined, "Lordship Salvation." However, true believers do stumble and struggle with things in their lives. It is very difficult to draw a line of "how far" one can go and still be saved. We cannot make that determination. Yet, we can conclude from Galatians 5 that if people are practicing the works of the flesh and that is the main characterization of their life then they will not inherit the kingdom of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBronx Posted September 20, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 183 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/04/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1968 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree 100%. I do believe in, what has been coined, "Lordship Salvation." However, true believers do stumble and struggle with things in their lives. It is very difficult to draw a line of "how far" one can go and still be saved. We cannot make that determination. Yet, we can conclude from Galatians 5 that if people are practicing the works of the flesh and that is the main characterization of their life then they will not inherit the kingdom of God. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We DO agree! THAT should have been my question!! Thanks Jar!! I'm going to ask my Pastor that very question and see what he says... Update (for those who care) to follow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBronx Posted September 26, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 183 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/04/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/31/1968 Author Share Posted September 26, 2005 (edited) Perhaps if we pose the question as such we can better approach the notion of salvation. Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I promised to come back to this after asking my Pastor (for those who care) Question: Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord? My Pastor says....YES Edited September 26, 2005 by DaBronx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted September 26, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 26, 2005 DaBronx, Please get your Bible out and read 1 John 5:16-17 "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." Ask your Pastor why John talks of certain sin that leads to death and other sin that doesn't. John is clearly telling us that we can lose our salvation from grave sin. If we all took your pastors advice, we could go out and do whatever, whenever and still go to heaven. This makes no logical sense, and goes against what John had to say in the Bible. I think you should listen to John and not your pastor. Pax, you "conveniently" left off the next verses: 1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. Those who are born of God (e.g. born-again) will not sin in such a way. So, which is it? Do those born of God "sinneth not?" Or, do they sin a sin unto death which means they lose their salvation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruah brit Posted September 26, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 280 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 26, 2005 Quote: "This is true. You can not say you don't have sin if you are asking Christ to forgive you. But once the true spirit of Christ is in you it is Christ that has no sin." Denise Can you clarify that, Denise? Are you saying that once you are born again, you do not sin. Or are you saying that when you are born again, you still sin, but you can be forgiven. Or are you saying something different? I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly. Thanks, Fiosh <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all (past, present, future) sin. I am saying that the added (present and future) in this statement is absolutely false and invented to anul the scripture it was inserted into. If you are walking in the light as He is in the light " you are not sinning" if you are sinning and claiming that you are walking in Christ's light you are a liar and a sinner who will only achieve God's wrath. Eph 5 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXASGRANDMA Posted September 26, 2005 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 153 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/27/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/04/1952 Share Posted September 26, 2005 I believe it is possible to be a Christian and not make God, Lord of your life. Is this something we should strife for? Of course not! How sad it will be for some who got in to Heaven by the skin of their teeth so to speak but to have never served God as their Lord and Savior. Our Pastor In Texas often talks about how wonderful it will be to lay your crowns at Jesus feet, but how sad it will be for those who made it in to Heaven but have nothing to lay at Jesus feet. The thief on the cross accepted Jesus as Savior but Jesus was never Lord of His life. I heard a preacher who said that when our works are tested on the altar of fire there will be those who's works will all burn up and they will have nothing but a robe that smells of smoke. OF course God will give them a new robe and wipe away their tears, but it will be so much better for us to serve God with all our heart so that we do have crowns we can lay down at the feet of Jesus. betty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted September 26, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 26, 2005 Perhaps if we pose the question as such we can better approach the notion of salvation. Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I promised to come back to this after asking my Pastor (for those who care) Question: Can a person have Christ as his Savior without submitting to Him as Lord? My Pastor says....YES <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I'd find a new church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted September 26, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 26, 2005 The thief on the cross accepted Jesus as Savior but Jesus was never Lord of His life. The thief didn't have much of a post-conversion life to allow Christ to be Lord, now did he? Regarding the "tested by fire." That is describing the judgment of ones motives in their service for God... not whether they obeyed or not. Remember: Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. So, if you don't do what Jesus tells you (i.e. you don't submit to Him as Lord) then you don't love Him... simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yomotalking Posted September 27, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,838 Content Per Day: 0.40 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/29/1991 Share Posted September 27, 2005 In Matt. 7:21-22-23 Christ tells us that not all believers are going to heaven. Look at James 2:19 There's a sprinkling of that message throughout the bible. If we knowingly reject Gods Word, how can we expect anything good from Him? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh great. You've scared me. Oh no............ I'm not close to God........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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