Opportunity lost

[kodischild]

We as Christians ask her to give up a part of her identity, her culture, her relationship, the lifestyle she has been living for years. Yet instead of offering her the love of Christ to replace those things, we offer her judgement and fear. We ask the gays to give up their sin before coming to Christ, where we allow everyone else to come to Him first and be forgiven, then give up their sins with his power.

Parents send their kids to Christians schools because the schools promise a Christian environment per the rules provided to all families. Do you think it ethical and honest for the school to violate its promise to the families of its students, even for the purpose you suggest?

If you were a Christian parent with a child in the school, would you be happy if your young child came home from school and told you about her friend that says its OK to be "gay" and that this friend's mom has two moms? Do you think it's fair to expect all the parents to accept that?

How many kids like this should the school make an exception for, for the sake not missing an oppertunity? How about the school toss its rules of admission and grant scholarships to all the kids in the local reform school? Talk about oppertunities! You do realize that it would change the character of the school, and eventually parents might choose the public schools to raise their kid in a good environment.

You can abuse the concept of "love" to justify anything you want. But, a Christian school with a set of explicit rules is not the place for Christians to show how "tolerant" they are. And, why do you ignore that this girl has been sent a clear message that homosexuality is not acceptable in Christianity. That may be just what she needed to open her eyes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't actually commenting on the article or if the child should have been suspended of not. I was commenting on how much hate some of the posters have against gays. I personally don't see a problem with the girl being expelled, I agree that the parents knew the rules from the beginning and shouldn't have put her in there. What I don't agree with is people who say/post things that would drive any homosexual away from God. I don't see how we can expect to draw them into the right path if we are openly hostile towards them.

I agree that there have to be standards for the Christian schools, and that the school was within its rights to kick her out, and that I also want to protect kids from bad influences.

As for the girl in question, do you think she is suddenly going to turn to Christ and against the way she was raised because of the love she felt when the Christians turned their backs on her because of what her parents did?

Edited October 2, 2005 by kodischild

[ruah brit]

The Lord will hold every one responsible for rejecting Him. There is not an acceptable excuse. How long was she in the school and her sibling? What teachings by her own words were retained? Yet there would be no news of this if she had not been flaunting it in some Christian Childs face with all devilish pride.

She didn't flaunt it in front of anyone. It was simply discovered. Where in the world do you get that she flaunted it...or is that the devilish prejudice you have?

Anyway, from the article we see that they were enrolled this year. In essence the girl was given less than two months to figure out what the Christian worldview was on homosexuality and to undergo a paradigm shift.

*sigh*

The biggest problem with Christianity is Christians.

No one comes to Christ except that God draws them. No one comes to God except through Christ. Many are called but few are chosen. The Lord who is God knows everyone’s intent and purpose. He knows how and who He has called and chosen. The purpose of what happened in this case is in the forefront for all to hear if they can pay attention.

Well then, we have no right throwing people away, now do we?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fox news

School administrators learned of the parents' relationship this week after Shay and another cheerleader were reprimanded for talking to the crowd during a Sept. 16 football game, according to Clark and her partner, Mitzi Gray.

Herald sun

"You're not supposed to judge if you're Christians and I feel the school is judging us," she told KCBS 2 television.

Well then, we have no right throwing people away, now do we?

That would depend on who you are in Christ.

1Co 6

2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Denise

[apothanein kerdos]

School administrators learned of the parents' relationship this week after Shay and another cheerleader were reprimanded for talking to the crowd during a Sept. 16 football game, according to Clark and her partner, Mitzi Gray.

Herald sun

"You're not supposed to judge if you're Christians and I feel the school is judging us," she told KCBS 2 television.

How does that quantify as "shoving it" in someone's face? Likewise, how does it justify expulsion?

THe problem with your belief that the school is justified is that it lacks biblical merit.

That would depend on who you are in Christ.

1Co 6

2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Do you not know that none of us are righteous?

[ruah brit]

School administrators learned of the parents' relationship this week after Shay and another cheerleader were reprimanded for talking to the crowd during a Sept. 16 football game, according to Clark and her partner, Mitzi Gray.

Herald sun

"You're not supposed to judge if you're Christians and I feel the school is judging us," she told KCBS 2 television.

How does that quantify as "shoving it" in someone's face? Likewise, how does it justify expulsion?

THe problem with your belief that the school is justified is that it lacks biblical merit.

That would depend on who you are in Christ.

1Co 6

2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Do you not know that none of us are righteous?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The school is justified to uphold the rules or go to the church that runs "Ontario Christian School" and change them. You and I did not create or build the school on what we believe. I can see the point of protecting the other students by inforcing the rules that were set down for the operation of the school.

Mt 20

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things?

Do you not know that none of us are righteous? 

I didn't used to be. But praise the Lord for His righteousness.

Ro 3

22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Ro 8

10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Co 1

29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--

31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

Php 3

9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Denise

[nebula]

Herald sun

"You're not supposed to judge if you're Christians and I feel the school is judging us," she told KCBS 2 television.

Don't you love it when people abuse Scripture to justify breaking the rules?

[apothanein kerdos]

The school is justified to uphold the rules or go to the church that runs "Ontario Christian School" and change them. You and I did not create or build the school on what we believe. I can see the point of protecting the other students by inforcing the rules that were set down for the operation of the school.

Mt 20

15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things?

This not only takes scripture out of context, but the entire issue out of context. What if the school made the law that it was okay for the teachers to sexually abuse children? Would it then be justified because they were making the rule based upon what they believed was right? What if they made the rule that it was okay to teach that God was actually a woman and all roads lead to Him/Her? Would it be okay then?

The fact of the matter is that the school went contrary to the Bible. The little girl was raised in a certain worldview, thus she did not know any better. Yet we are condemning her for what she has never been taught. You, and other sick minded Christians, are trying to justify it. It is a very, very, very sad day when we condemn someone for not knowing any better.

I didn't used to be. But praise the Lord for His righteousness.

You're missing the point, the fact that you said God has called out and chosen people nullifies us from throwing them away.

Don't you love it when people abuse Scripture to justify breaking the rules?

HOW ELSE IS SHE SUPPOSE TO KNOW THE TRUTH IF WE KICK HER OUT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

People, it's called a worldview and it is mainly based upon what you expirience and what you grow up with. The fact of the matter is she has not grown up in a Christian home and the ethics she has been taught have been tainted. Thus it should come as no suprise she would say this, because it is what she has been taught. The school, in its absolute ignorance, kicked her out. The only avenue she had to learn biblical truths, kicked her out. Now tell me, how do you think that will shape her worldview concerning Christians?

Doing "everything" to save a homosexual is foolish if you allow others to be lost. And, I even highly doubt that such tactics as bending over backwards to not offend them are even useful to reach out to homosexuals, in the first place.

Well for one, you hate homosexuals (as proven by your initial post), so anything you say about "bending over backwards" or "reaching out to them" should be suspect. Secondly, allowing a girl who has been raised by homosexuals to attend an organization that could potentially change her worldview (afterall, she would be in that organization for four years constantly hearing about the Christian worldview) is not bending over backwards, it is using common sense and grace.

Then you might as well get busy ripping pages out of your Bible, because there's a lot of stuff in their that his openly hostile towards them.

Where is the Bible, according to the New Testament, openly hostile towards homosexuals? The only city destroyed for anything remotely close to sexual perversion was Sodom and Gomorrah. Yet, this was for sexual perversion and not just homosexuality (though homosexuality played a huge part in it). Many cities, in those days, woudl have sex with whoever came into the town, and would basically force the entire group upon the one person. This is why the daughters were not used by the group, because they were known in the community.

You can disagree with me on that, but answer this logical fallacy that most ignore. If Sodom was completely homosexual...then how did it have a growth in population?

Either way, the Bible is openly hostile to a lot of things, but I will get to that at the end of my post.

I think helping to clearly define Right and Wrong to her will be at least as effective as coddling.

No its not.

"We know you've grown up this way and have never been taught anything else, and we know that we could help change your mind, but we're going to kick you out of school and alienate you away from your friends and the church...just to prove a point."

Do you not see the fallacy?

American Christianity has become extremely tolerant of homosexuals, and all it has resulted in homosexual state marriage in two states and several denominations blessing the homosexual lifestyle. The number of Christians in America are dropping. This is the road you want us to choose. Sorry, I say NO.

You're ignoring some key issues, such as 13 states having added a ban on homosexual marriages in their constitutions. Also, only one state has allowed for outright homosexual marriage, the other (Vermont), is allowing for same sex benefits but not marriage. Even if we go with two, that's 13 vs. 2. Your argument just flopped.

We are not advocating we should allow homosexuals to do what they want or be allowed to marry. We are not asking that we bless homosexuality. We are simply advocating that you don't kick a child out of school for the sins of the parents...which again...I will hit hard on at the bottom of my post.

As I said in my first response in this thread, I'm sure the school considered the character of the girl before kicking her out for a rules violation. Look at the arrogance in that quote. It also reveals that she militantly insists that homosexuality is not a sin.

One of the lesbians posing as a parent said she and her partner "had always been open about their relationship and had turned up together at school open days." More arrogance and defiance, as well as a militant desire to corrupt the students at the school.

Again, how is she suppose to know any better if she has never been taught the truth? Who cares about the parents...compared to the Christian parents at least they were honest.

BTW, for those of you who have some discernment, the 14-year-old girl says "I was born into this family", yet the lesbian relationship supposedly is 22 years in duration. There are three children in this family, all apparently under 22. Artificial insemination, "God's solution for unnatural relationships" (I doubt it)? Infidelity and heterosexual relations outside of this lesbian relationship (probably)?

Many homosexual partners will have sex with someone of the opposite sex simply for the reproductive value. Very rarely can a homosexual be artificially insiminated because many doctors simply won't allow it (thank God).

Now, here is the big thing that everyone is missing. What the "parents" are doing is wong. Homosexuality is a sin and should not be participated in. The girl, even though she doesn't know any better, is equally wrong for condoning it and defending the lifestyle. We can all agree upon that. What we disagree on is the child being kicked out. Yet, let's take this a step further.

To be in a Christian school one has to be making a decent ammount of money, or have both parents working. This means that in that school there are potentially children there with parents that are corrupt business people, cheating people out of money and jobs on a daily basis. This goes against the bible. Likewise there is potentially the problem of parents having affairs with their secretaries or other people. This goes against the Bible. There are parents there who probably are alcoholics. This goes against the Bible. There are parents there that are probably abusive. This goes against the Bible. Need I go on?

The point is proven. There are parents there that are in sinful lifestyles that the children may or may not support, but because the school didn't find out about it...or because the parents go to church....they are allowed to stay. In other words, the only message the school is sending is that it's okay to sin, so long as they dont' catch you doing it.

Argue all you want people, the fact remains none of you hold biblical support or logical support.

[nebula]

SJ -

Did the school say they were kicking her out for having homosexual parents? Or for a breaking of the rules about at least one parent going to church?

It's her and the parents turning this into a homosexual issue. If they want her to go to the school, why can't one of them just start going to church? I mean, there's enough denominations out there accepting homosexuals into their membership that it shouldn't be too hard for them, shouldn't it?

And you still haven't answered my other two questions. Why not?

[kodischild]

What I don't agree with is people who say/post things that would drive any homosexual away from God.

With zero intention of offense, that is the same attitude that compelled the Catholic Church to allow homosexuals to become priests which resulted in so many children being sexually abused which resulted in a tremendous loss of credibility and financial resources of the Catholic church which resulted in great harm for their ability to bring people to God (at least from a Catholic perspective).

Doing "everything" to save a homosexual is foolish if you allow others to be lost. And, I even highly doubt that such tactics as bending over backwards to not offend them are even useful to reach out to homosexuals, in the first place.

I don't see how we can expect to draw them into the right path if we are openly hostile towards them.

Then you might as well get busy ripping pages out of your Bible, because there's a lot of stuff in their that his openly hostile towards them. Going back to the Catholic Church and children being raped, the Church's tolerance of homosexuals didn't cause these homosexuals to change.

As for the girl in question, do you think she is suddenly going to turn to Christ and against the way she was raised because of the love she felt when the Christians turned their backs on her because of what her parents did?

I think helping to clearly define Right and Wrong to her will be at least as effective as coddling.

American Christianity has become extremely tolerant of homosexuals, and all it has resulted in homosexual state marriage in two states and several denominations blessing the homosexual lifestyle. The number of Christians in America are dropping. This is the road you want us to choose. Sorry, I say NO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you even try to understand the intent behind my post before responding to it? Did I say we should bend over backwards to encourage gays to come to church? Did I say that we should put them in a position of power? I don't remember saying any of that.

The real problem isn't that their sin is so much worse than ours, it is that we can't identify with it so we turn away from them. The real problem is with people who can't figure out how to accept the person without accepting the sin, so they treat the person cruelly because of the sin. Sure the number of Christians in America is dropping. After spending time with some of the "Christians" in America I'm not even sure I want anything to do with their version of God, and that is all the version some people will get to see.

I DID NOT say we should tolerate their sin. I said we should treat them like real valuable people, creations of God, folks with souls that could be saved if we would treat them right. I was trying to say that if we don't treat them with love they will not have a reason to turn away from sin. I was trying to say that while the Bible has rules, presenting the rules before presenting the love that Christ has for us will only turn people away.

Ok, so let's not reach out to these people because we don't like their sin. Let's use the idea that they are sinners to justify treating them badly and making rude comments about them. I just say we need to be honest about it. Post a sign on your church door stating that sinners aren't welcome because we don't want to be accused of tolerating their sin and we believe they can find the love of Christ better if we shove the law down their throats. Then ask why nobody comes to church anymore.

[Qun Mang]

Okay, I find myself in a quandary here. On the one hand we are arguing Biblical truth, which is more important- protecting our children from corruption or reaching people for Christ?

On the other hand, I don't think either side is making any headway, and I don't know that anything new is being said in the circles we keep going 'round. And some of these comments are very heated.

I think I'm going to lock this for a bit and see if cooler heads can prevail tomorrow.

EDIT: I see someone responding right now, so I will wait a few minutes. I don't like topics being closed when I am typing something, so I will let it through.

[ruah brit]

What if the school made the law that it was okay for the teachers to sexually abuse children?

What if they made the rule that it was okay to teach that God was actually a woman and all roads lead to Him/Her?

This is a lack of movement toward good based on paranoia. None of these are reality in this case.

You're missing the point, the fact that you said God has called out and chosen people nullifies us from throwing them away.

I understand the point. Do you? Would I bring a wolf into the sheep fold, knowing its nature, in hopes of transforming it into a sheep? How many thorns and thistles will Christ's messengers gather and burn to save the wheat?

Denise