Age of Accountability

[EricH]

Basically the scriptures are silent on this specific issue. Thus we probably need to refrain from making definitive statements other than what scripture affirms, namely that there is salvation in no other name than Jesus' and that we can trust in the character of God to always do what is right.

[Trust & Obey]

In John 9:41 Jesus says that if we have not the capacity to understand, then we are not held responsible for our sin.

This is all I can find to support the belief that young children and mentally infirmed will be saved.

Comment on this scripture  ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are some passages that seem to indicate that. Here's another couple:

Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

But, we also have this:

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

So, have fun reconciling those.

[CarolineS]

I am seeking the collective knowledge of you all, A question was ask of me , where is the age of accountability specified in God's word ?

Then, in our discussion, the subject of the mental ability of the one witnessed to, and how does that effect how we witness to a person like that ?

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There is an example in Numbers 14 in which the Jewish people refused to enter into the land of Canaan. They rejected God's promise that He would give them this land. They doubted God's ability to protect and provide for them. They definitely had a lack of faith and trust in the Lord, even after all He had done for them to lead them out of bondage in Egypt.

As punishment they had to wander around the desert for 40 yrs. There is a verse that states from twenty years old and above shall be held responsible or accountable for complaining. Anyone over age twenty would die in the desert and not enter the promised land.

<Numbers 14:29>

"The carcasses of you who have complained against Me shall fall in this wilderness, all of you who were numbered, according to your entire number, from twenty years old and above."

<Numbers 14:31>

"But your little ones, whom you said would be victims, I will bring in, and they shall know the land which you have despised."

The little children were not held accountable. I think, the age of accountability can vary according to maturity, exposure to the Word, mental capacity, and maybe other factors. I would guess, by age twenty, each individual is capable of making a decision either for or against Christ. But, I think the age can vary for some people.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Trust & Obey]

The little children were not held accountable.  I think, the age of accountability can vary according to maturity, exposure to the Word, mental capacity, and maybe other factors.  I would guess, by age twenty, each individual is capable of making a decision either for or against Christ.  But, I think the age can vary for some people. 

In Christ,

CarolineS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't that argument be used to say that those who never hear of Christ go to heaven?

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

[CarolineS]

The little children were not held accountable.

[Trust & Obey]

The little children were not held accountable.  I think, the age of accountability can vary according to maturity, exposure to the Word, mental capacity, and maybe other factors.  I would guess, by age twenty, each individual is capable of making a decision either for or against Christ.  But, I think the age can vary for some people. 

In Christ,

CarolineS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn't that argument be used to say that those who never hear of Christ go to heaven?

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. I think some people who have never heard of Jesus will go to heaven. Because we are judged by what we know not by what we don't know. We are judged by the light that has shone on us. Everyone is given a conscience. We know without ever hearing the law that it is wrong to murder, lie, commit adultery.

We all make choices whether to sin or not. Only God knows the heart. He looks upon the heart of man, whereas we cannot.

In Christ,

CarolineS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Caroline, then what do you make of this passage?

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

It says those who have sinned without the law shall also perish without the law.

Previously in Romans Paul had also said:

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Thus, according to Paul, everyone is without excuse due to God's revelation of Himself simply through the creation.

[book_wirm]

God is just because he does not pervert judgment.

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Agreed. (Mind you we enter here into unfathomable theology where it is most likely best to admit our ignorance and trust Him) However, God reminds us in Isa. that His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. His are higher than ours. Whether something is "right" because God says so or God does things a certain way because they are right...I think it is irrelevant here. If God grants eternal life to all children who die then that is Right and Just, however, if He chooses from them some for His own and does not choose others then that is Right and Just. The fact that God does not tell us what He will do in such circumstances leaves us only in a position to trust that He will do what is Right and Just. What that is is impossible to say.

Luke 1:15 - For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

God called and annointed these two men before they were ever born, as the scripture plainly says.

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He sure did. BUT that only says something about these two men. That logic does not necessarily apply to all children. It may, but these passages are not proof of such. This is especially true when we incorporate what you have already reminded us of:

Acts 10:34b God is no respecter of persons:

If the Holy Spirit was with Jeremiah and John before they were ever born, then he also affords the same sort of help to every infant, though obviously not for the same purpose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the leap that I am referring to.

Mark 10:14 - But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Psalms 8:2 - Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These speak to nothing more than the "type" of faith which God desires from us, childlike (innocent, unquestioning, trusting, etc) and that God has chosen to use the "weak" things of this world to confound the wise. It really is not any support for all children being granted eternal life.

I want to end by saying that my point is not that some children go to heaven and some to hell. My point is that we don't know and can't say. It is best then to refrain from being dogmatic about it and let God be God.

In Christ,

Eric

[yomotalking]

"For God so loved the World, that He gave his only bgotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

If a young one cannot make any choice........

[yomotalking]

"For God so loved the World, that He gave his only bgotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

If a young one cannot make any choice........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Job. 3:12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck? 13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest, 14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, which build desolate places for themselves; 15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver: 16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.

Job seemed to think that unborn children had rest. Now we know that sinners and the lost don't go to a place of rest...

Eccl. 6:3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he. 4 For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness. 5 Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other.

Solomon basicly says an untimely birth has more rest than a sinner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You've lost me.

lol.

Can you explain your post simply?

Us youngies can't understand some!

[Ovedya]

"For God so loved the World, that He gave his only bgotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

If a young one cannot make any choice........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Job. 3:12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck? 13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest, 14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, which build desolate places for themselves; 15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver: 16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.

Job seemed to think that unborn children had rest. Now we know that sinners and the lost don't go to a place of rest...

Eccl. 6:3 If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he. 4 For he cometh in with vanity, and departeth in darkness, and his name shall be covered with darkness. 5 Moreover he hath not seen the sun, nor known any thing: this hath more rest than the other.

Solomon basicly says an untimely birth has more rest than a sinner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or maybe he's saying that the untimely death of an infant is more restful because he or she has not experienced the woes of this world. Philosophers for centirues have commented on the death of infants as being something to be envied.