As Without Law

[Mr. M]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:53 AM, Mr. M said:

The essential nature of a Christian walk is to have no confidence 

in ourselves, our education or our lineage.

This is included for everyone's personal application.

2 Corinthians 3:

4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything 

as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 

6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, 

not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Paul fully elaborates on his relationship with his education in Torah. (previous post)

 

[Mr. M]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:53 AM, Mr. M said:

The more one is completely “sold out” to ministry by the Spirit, 

the more that ministry will receive the commendation of God and man.

2 Corinthians 4:

1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, 

we do not lose heart. 

2 But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness 

nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth 

commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

More than just personally blameless by the Law, 

but blameless in the public ministry of the Gospel.

2 Corinthians 6:

3 We give no offense by anything, that our ministry may not be blamed. 

4 But in all things we commend ourselves as ministers of God: 

in much patience, in tribulations, in need, in distress…

We cannot commend ourselves in words, but by results!

2 Corinthians 10:18 For not he who commends himself is approved, 

but whom the Lord commends.

For this to be accomplished, the child of God must reckon themselves 

dead to the self, and alive in Christ.

2 Corinthians 4:

10 Always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, 

that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 

11 For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus’ sake, 

that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 

We offer ourselves as a living sacrifice to God, so that He will make us 

acceptable by what He has provided in the power of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 8:12 For if there is first a willing mind, it is accepted 

according to what one has, and not according to what he does not have.

This delves further into Paul's teachings that must be taken as a personal responsibility

to all who would be "good and faithful servants". This is the "defense of the gospel" subforum

of apologetics, so if anyone who does this study doesn't feel better equipped to do so, and 

in full support of Paul, then so be it, but as always, there are several responses that indicate

to me that all that was read was the title. So now you know, if you don't want to be thorough,

move on.

[Mr. M]

On 12/22/2022 at 4:53 AM, Mr. M said:

The manifestation of this is a man who rejects the esteem of others, 

to be justified by Christ alone.

Luke 16:15 And He said to them, You are those who justify yourselves 

before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed 

among men is an abomination in the sight of God. 

These concerns govern our actions on a daily basis.

Acts 24:16 This being so, I myself always strive to have a conscience 

without offense toward God and men.

1 Thessalonians 2:4 But as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel,

even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God who tests our hearts. 

 

Always taking care that our testimony is not simply an attempt to justify ourselves,

which is merely seeking man's approval, and not the Lord's commendation.

[Mr. M]

On 12/29/2022 at 1:06 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Could you find a way to express yourself in shorter posts?

Hopefully this breakdown I just completed will help all get to the meat of the topic.

Not an apology. Maybe Paul should have written less letters. The fact is, I find the

sound comprehension of Paul's teaching to be grossly lacking, and the way he is

misinterpreted an obvious work of the enemy. This requires a due diligence on our part.

While this was in fact one of my longer posts, I will stop writing when the Spirit stops

speaking. Okay, now.

[coheir]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

This is what Paul addresses in the parenthetical note in verse 21. The thread is more about verse 19. 

 

Sorry I did not realize 19 was the topic after seeing 31 other beside verses 19

[Mr. M]

5 minutes ago, coheir said:

Sorry I did not realize 19 was the topic after seeing 31 other beside verses 19

My own words in blue, as the originator, serve as an excellent indicator.

No need for sorry. Just an honest and sincere heart.

 

To understand how Paul could be without law (anomos) while also under

Law in Christ, we must consider the most basic level of lawlessness. 

Judges 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel; 

everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

While man may find ways to accommodate this mentality, it must be 

understood that this establishes a criteria for misjudgment.

Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, 

but the Lord weighs the hearts.

To comprehend what Paul is teaching, we must consider the full 

weight of his own testimony. This applies to all who would teach 

by example, and sharing their experiences. 

Firstly, the Lord has already informed us:

Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and 

by your words you will be condemned.

As we all know, in order for others to receive our testimony, our activities 

must line up with the profession of our faith.

James 2:12 So speak and so do, as those who will be judged 

by the law of liberty. 

By frequently offering testimony to Christ in him, Paul is engaging the means 

by which we overcome, and receive a good report by faith.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and 

by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Our testimony must be to the role of faith in our life

Hebrews 11:2 For by it(faith) the elders obtained a good testimony.

By his testimony, Paul justifies his actions and his doctrine, 

as he did before Agrippa.

Acts 26:

19 Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 

20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout 

all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, 

turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

As can be clearly seen, the notion that Paul did not preach the Gospel 

of repentance or works of righteousness is a total fiction.

“For though I am free from all”

The only way that Paul could make this statement was for his words 

and actions to reflect his election in Christ. 

As long as he was walking “in obedience to his heavenly vision”, 

no one can condemn him as a lawbreaker. And yet he also reveals a standard 

that must be maintained for his testimony to be valid: 

“I have made myself a servant to all”

The self-serving nature of many public ministries in our time invalidates 

the testimony of those who claim to be “servants of the Lord”. 

Again, Paul’s testimony is consistent with this expectation.

2 Corinthians 1:12 For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience

that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity,

not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.

[coheir]

3 minutes ago, Mr. M said:

My own words in blue, as the originator, serve as an excellent indicator.

No need for sorry. Just an honest and sincere heart.

 

To understand how Paul could be without law (anomos) while also under

Law in Christ, we must consider the most basic level of lawlessness. 

Judges 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel; 

everyone did what was right in his own eyes.

While man may find ways to accommodate this mentality, it must be 

understood that this establishes a criteria for misjudgment.

Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, 

but the Lord weighs the hearts.

To comprehend what Paul is teaching, we must consider the full 

weight of his own testimony. This applies to all who would teach 

by example, and sharing their experiences. 

Firstly, the Lord has already informed us:

Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and 

by your words you will be condemned.

As we all know, in order for others to receive our testimony, our activities 

must line up with the profession of our faith.

James 2:12 So speak and so do, as those who will be judged 

by the law of liberty. 

By frequently offering testimony to Christ in him, Paul is engaging the means 

by which we overcome, and receive a good report by faith.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and 

by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Our testimony must be to the role of faith in our life

Hebrews 11:2 For by it(faith) the elders obtained a good testimony.

By his testimony, Paul justifies his actions and his doctrine, 

as he did before Agrippa.

Acts 26:

19 Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, 

20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout 

all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, 

turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.

As can be clearly seen, the notion that Paul did not preach the Gospel 

of repentance or works of righteousness is a total fiction.

“For though I am free from all”

The only way that Paul could make this statement was for his words 

and actions to reflect his election in Christ. 

As long as he was walking “in obedience to his heavenly vision”, 

no one can condemn him as a lawbreaker. And yet he also reveals a standard 

that must be maintained for his testimony to be valid: 

“I have made myself a servant to all”

The self-serving nature of many public ministries in our time invalidates 

the testimony of those who claim to be “servants of the Lord”. 

Again, Paul’s testimony is consistent with this expectation.

2 Corinthians 1:12 For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience

that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity,

not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.

I think Paul had two things on his mind.

1. Reason with and convert those under the law to the New Covenant that Jesus taught him.

2. Bring Gentiles ( those without any law) into the New Covenant.

Jesus fulfilled the old law and it was left in place for those who could not comprehend the New Covenant. All the Gentile were taught the New Covenant with out any of the law from the Old Covenant made only with Israel.

[Mr. M]

7 minutes ago, coheir said:

I think Paul had two things on his mind.

1. Reason with and convert those under the law to the New Covenant that Jesus taught him.

2. Bring Gentiles ( those without any law) into the New Covenant.

Jesus fulfilled the old law and it was left in place for those who could not comprehend the New Covenant. All the Gentile were taught the New Covenant with out any of the law from the Old Covenant made only with Israel.

Okay. Once again, as I pointed out in responding to your first comment, Paul covered what you said almost

word for word, in verse 21. What you have written here is a logical conclusion to the first citation made from

1 Corinthians 9:19-21. All I am saying is that there was quite a bit more involved in the lesson (which you have

pointed out), and derived from verse 19, as to being a servant to all. At least you took the time to count the number

of scriptures, and I am sure you have accomplished what you set out to do originally, which was respond to the title

only, which is common. There is much scripture, because there is many lessons, all connected by the Spirit of Truth.

One down, maybe a dozen more to go, for anyone interested.

 

[coheir]

1 hour ago, Mr. M said:

Okay. Once again, as I pointed out in responding to your first comment, Paul covered what you said almost

word for word, in verse 21. What you have written here is a logical conclusion to the first citation made from

1 Corinthians 9:19-21. All I am saying is that there was quite a bit more involved in the lesson (which you have

pointed out), and derived from verse 19, as to being a servant to all. At least you took the time to count the number

of scriptures, and I am sure you have accomplished what you set out to do originally, which was respond to the title

only, which is common. There is much scripture, because there is many lessons, all connected by the Spirit of Truth.

One down, maybe a dozen more to go, for anyone interested.

 

Sorry, I did read your post I just did not get your point and I posted what came to my mind.

[Vine Abider]

21 hours ago, coheir said:

without law or without the law equals the New Covenant. I find many are stuck between the law (old covenant) and the New Covenant at least the Churches I visited online and in person.

Yes, I think this is a HUGE issue in the body of Christ!  That is, trying to live the new covenant by means of old covenant efforts --> denying that we can do nothing and Christ came to indwell us to do it.

I hear radio & TV preachers all the time exhorting people to do this or that in order to live how Jesus wants us to, but almost never saying that He became a life-giving Spirit to indwell us and enable us to do what He said!