Mr. M

Don't forget that there were many false Messiahs at that time that may have used baptism for initiates. This makes John's baptism all the more significant, and was emphasized often by the Lord. Acts 5: 34 Then one in the council stood up, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in respect by all the people, and commanded them to put the apostles outside for a little while. 35 And he said to them: “Men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do regarding these men. 36 For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody. A number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was slain, and all who obeyed him were scattered and came to nothing. 37 After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away many people after him. He also perished, and all who obeyed him were dispersed. 38 And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39 but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.” Note: Gamaliel was Paul's teacher. Acts 22:3

The Lord would disagree with you. And it was the Pharisees who were made to look silly. Matthew 21: 23 Now when He came into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people confronted Him as He was teaching, and said, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority?” 24 But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me, I likewise will tell you by what authority I do these things: 25 The baptism of John—where was it from? From heaven or from men?” And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we fear the multitude, for all count John as a prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus and said, “We do not know.” And He said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things. The scribes and Pharisees contradict your notion that John's baptism was cultural and common to the time, or related to the Law of Moses. In fact, their belief was that if John was baptizing, he must either be Elijah, that prophet or Christ Himself. His baptism was ordained by the words of the prophets, not Moses. John 1: 19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.” 22 Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?” 23 He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the Lord,” ’ as the prophet Isaiah said.” 24 Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, saying, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” 26 John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water, but there stands One among you whom you do not know. 27 It is He who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.” 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

The only concern expressed in the Gospels concerning the baptism of John was the authority and purpose by which it was performed.

But this was not with remission of sin. John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. One last time, @Cntrysner made the statement that the baptism of John was of the Law. It was not. It was prophetic to the coming of Messiah.

Again, ritual purification in the Law of Moses is not the baptism of John's remission of...oh, I am right. I posted this in response to you quoting Ex 19 "holy nation of priests", which was for all Israel. Levitical Law came into existence after the golden calf incident and Levi was set aside. More carelessness. Obviously there was Temple Law in the time of Yeshua. Much of it was tradition of the elders. Here is what I know as a "Gentile": Amos 5: 25 Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel? 26 But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. No argument here. I claim the same preference to any prophet or Psalmist who spoke of Messiah 1 Peter 1: 10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven —things which angels desire to look into. This portion of the prophecy pertained to John being the one who would go before the Lord to prepare the hearts of the people. Luke 7: 26 But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. 27 This is he of whom it is written: ‘Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.’ 28 For I say to you, among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.” 29 And when all the people heard Him, even the tax collectors justified God, having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.

I am aware of this narrative, brother. They had made and were fulfilling a vow. If you want to elaborate, do so from the Law of Moses for anyone who would desire to know, but it does not support in any way @Cntrysner's contention. Nor does it have anything to do with the efficacy of the water baptism of John, or the remission of sin. Choose the thread that you would like to make reference to, and this is off topic. As already proven not by me but Christ himself, the baptism of John was from heaven, was declared to be authoritative by Isaiah and Malachi, and the beginnings of the Gospel of Jesus Christ in Mark 1. I don't know how much more I should be willing to write to make this clear, but it is unlikely to be much.

Like I already said, this pertained to the priests, not people entering the Temple in general. Again, the confusion is not mine.

The statement and confusion were his. I was rejecting the notion that there could be remission from sin by ritual purification. You are simply careless. There was no Levitical law at this time. Your post is a bit long winded, so I will drop it here, since I don't feel like correcting someone who is correcting me erroneously. John's baptism was unique and ordained in that it did, in fact, result in remission of sin. Luke 1: 76 “And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, 77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, Israel, of course, was baptized corporately into Moses: 1 Corinthians 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. The reality that John's baptism was unique is confirmed by the Lord here: Matthew 21: 23 Now when He came into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people confronted Him as He was teaching, and said, “By what authority are You doing these things? And who gave You this authority?” 24 But Jesus answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, which if you tell Me, I likewise will tell you by what authority I do these things: 25 The baptism of John—where was it from? From heaven or from men?” And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say to us, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’ 26 But if we say, ‘From men,’ we fear the multitude, for all count John as a prophet.” 27 So they answered Jesus and said, “We do not know.” And He said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

Jeremiah 45: 1 The word that Jeremiah the prophet spoke to Baruch the son of Neriah, when he had written these words in a book at the instruction of Jeremiah, in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah, saying, 2 Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, to you, O Baruch: 3 You said, Woe is me now! For the Lord has added grief to my sorrow. I fainted in my sighing, and I found no rest. 4 Thus you shall say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord: Behold, what I have built I will break down, and what I have planted I will pluck up, that is, this whole land. 5 And do you seek great things for yourself? Do not seek them; for behold, I will bring adversity on all flesh, says the Lord. But I will give your life to you as a prize in all places, wherever you go. "Woe is me now! For the Lord has added grief to my sorrow. I fainted in my sighing, and I found no rest." Ezekiel 21: 1 6 Sigh therefore, son of man, with a breaking heart, and sigh with bitterness before their eyes. 7 And it shall be when they say to you, Why are you sighing? that you shall answer, Because of the news; when it comes, every heart will melt, all hands will be feeble, every spirit will faint, and all knees will be weak as water. Behold, it is coming and shall be brought to pass, says the Lord God. "But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him." 1 Co 8:3 Amos 3: 1 Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying: 2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. 3 Can two walk together, unless they are agreed? 1 Peter 4: 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now If the righteous one is scarcely saved, Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator. James 2: 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

There is no requirement for ritual immersion in the law of Moses. Levitical law required the priests to wash prior to ministering at the altar. The idea that this provided purification, or remission from sin is unsupported. Hebrews 9:22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. John's baptism on the other hand was in fact new, and brought him under scrutiny from the Pharisees to answer by what authority he baptized. John 1: 19 Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.” 22 Then they said to him, “Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?” 23 He said: “I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: “Make straight the way of the Lord,” ’as the prophet Isaiah said.” 24 Now those who were sent were from the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, saying, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” You claim that "Baptism in water would be a righteous work and we know it's not by works of righteousness." I don't know where you get that from, but it is not scripture. So let me show you what was going on at Bethabara: Matthew 3: 4 Now John himself was clothed in camel’s hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him 6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance: The idea that confessing sin is an act of righteousness is an oxymoron. It is an act of contrition, and when done as an act of repentance, is an acceptable sacrifice to the Lord. Psalm 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, A broken and a contrite heart— These, O God, You will not despise. Any action taken in accordance with the word of God is effectual, be it immersing in water, or abstaining from eating "for conscience sake" 2 Kings 5: 9 Then Naaman went with his horses and chariot, and he stood at the door of Elisha’s house. 10 And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored to you, and you shall be clean.” 11 But Naaman became furious, and went away and said, “Indeed, I said to myself, ‘He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the Lord his God, and wave his hand over the place, and heal the leprosy.’ 12 Are not the]Abanah and the Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean? So he turned and went away in a rage. 13 And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?” 14 So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. Was there magical power in the waters of the Jordan, or was obedience to the Word of God effectual? As to your lecture on apostolic doctrine, I will not respond to you or your opinions, they are off-topic as well as they are flawed. I will ask you about these statements: "Christ Jesus by the Spirit baptizes us into his body superseding the need for water baptism." (scriptures??) Why did Phillip water baptize the Ethiopian Eunuch? Why did Peter baptize the household of Cornelius, even after they had received the Spirit? "The answer of a good conscience toward God (1 Peter 3:21) is to believe in the resurrection of the ascended Christ and His Spirit in us will do the rest."??? Not even close to apostolic doctrine, but I am sure there are plenty of people who would jump on that bandwagon.

First use Genesis 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, H5030 and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine. The prophet as an intercessor Ezekiel 22:30 So I sought for a man among them who would make a wall, and stand in the gap before Me on behalf of the land, that I should not destroy it; but I found no one. [H5030]nabi=prophet<[H5012] naba=prophesy Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, H5012 your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: True prophesy by the Spirit is a response to intercessions: 1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men: 1 Corinthians 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Joel 3: 9 Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare for war! Wake up the mighty men, Let all the men of war draw near, Let them come up. 10 Beat your plowshares into swords And your pruning hooks into spears; Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’ ” 11 Assemble and come, all you nations, And gather together all around. Cause Your mighty ones to go down there, O Lord. 12 Let the nations be wakened, and come up to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; For there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations. 13 Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; For the wine press is full, The vats overflow— For their wickedness is great. 14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure thereunto even baptism doth also now save us; not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (saved by faith) The only way to have a good conscience toward God is to walk in obedience, by which the Holy Spirit has no reason to convict us. Acts 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men. Water baptism is an act of obedience. There is no inherent efficacy of water without the command of the Lord. Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

When the Holy Spirit is "running the house" -oikeo; the way the sinful nature used to be in control. " it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me." "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. It is this "if" that distinguishes receiving the Spirit from the "indwelling", attained by abiding. 1 John 2:24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

Always Doing Those Things That Please Him, As An Acceptable Sacrifice John 8:29 And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him. 1 John 3: 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. Philippians 4:18 Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God. Joining With All Creation For His Good Pleasure Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for you have created all things, and for Your pleasure they are and were created. Doing His Will, Receiving The Promise Hebrews 10:36-39 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: For yet a little while, He who is coming will come and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe, unto the saving of the soul. The Reward Of Those Who Diligently Seek His Will Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, and was not found, because God had taken him; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Perfecting His Will In That Which Is Well Pleasing In His Sight Hebrews 13: 20 Now may the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Everlasting Consolation and Good Hope 2 Thessalonians 2: 16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.