Justin Adams Posted June 23, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 9,606 Content Per Day: 3.94 Reputation: 7,798 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2023 I have yet to find Biblical support for this idea. Tulip followers have to really contort scripture in order to "prove" this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted June 23, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,828 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,818 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, Justin Adams said: I have yet to find Biblical support for this idea. Tulip followers have to really contort scripture in order to "prove" this idea. Justin, I find it very concerning. My biggest issue with this doctrine is the "l" - limited atonement. [1] I believe in the "t" - total depravity - that mankind is completely sinful and cannot save himself. [2] I believe in the "p" - perseverance of the saints - once God has saved you, it cannot be undone. God made the Holy Spirit our "seal", our "guarantee" and Jesus said "no one can pluck us out of his hands." However, the other three I cannot embrace and here's why. [3] "Unconditional election" - Ok, I get that we have NOTHING about us that merits God's grace. God's grace to us is something we have not and cannot earn. However, it's the "election" part that bothers me. Those who are reformed believe that God is only going to save a comparative few and that God has no desire to save all of mankind. That God sends people to hell because he created them to go to hell -created them in the womb hating them. They will never have a divine opportunity to BE saved because hates them all. I cannot find this in the Bible. I find the opposite, in fact. God sent his Son to die for the WORLD, yet all of the world will not follow him. [4.] "Limited Atonement" - This is my biggest issue. The reformed claim that the blood of Christ will not reach everyone. That it was never intended for all. That Jesus only died for some. This is not what the Bible teaches. Not all will be saved - but it is God's will that none should perish. But God does not force people to follow him and submit to him. Countless people will not. [5.] "Irresistable Grace" = I cannot hold to this idea that when God via the Holy Spirit calls one to salvation that one mindlessly and robotically obeys. If this is true, what do we do with Cain and the rich young ruler. The Bible says that Jesus "loved" the rich young ruler, but that he rejected Jesus. God outlined to Cain how to escape sin and how to be accepted. Cain refused. I believe that the individual person has the free will to obey God's will or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philologos Posted June 23, 2023 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/09/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Jayne said: Justin, I find it very concerning. My biggest issue with this doctrine is the "l" - limited atonement. [1] I believe in the "t" - total depravity - that mankind is completely sinful and cannot save himself. [2] I believe in the "p" - perseverance of the saints - once God has saved you, it cannot be undone. God made the Holy Spirit our "seal", our "guarantee" and Jesus said "no one can pluck us out of his hands." However, the other three I cannot embrace and here's why. [3] "Unconditional election" - Ok, I get that we have NOTHING about us that merits God's grace. God's grace to us is something we have not and cannot earn. However, it's the "election" part that bothers me. Those who are reformed believe that God is only going to save a comparative few and that God has no desire to save all of mankind. That God sends people to hell because he created them to go to hell -created them in the womb hating them. They will never have a divine opportunity to BE saved because hates them all. I cannot find this in the Bible. I find the opposite, in fact. God sent his Son to die for the WORLD, yet all of the world will not follow him. [4.] "Limited Atonement" - This is my biggest issue. The reformed claim that the blood of Christ will not reach everyone. That it was never intended for all. That Jesus only died for some. This is not what the Bible teaches. Not all will be saved - but it is God's will that none should perish. But God does not force people to follow him and submit to him. Countless people will not. [5.] "Irresistable Grace" = I cannot hold to this idea that when God via the Holy Spirit calls one to salvation that one mindlessly and robotically obeys. If this is true, what do we do with Cain and the rich young ruler. The Bible says that Jesus "loved" the rich young ruler, but that he rejected Jesus. God outlined to Cain how to escape sin and how to be accepted. Cain refused. I believe that the individual person has the free will to obey God's will or not. This is a cult movement that is being imbedded in churches, theology & literature. Some of the leaders of this movement operate places of “teaching doctrine,” whereas they refer to themselves as “Chancellor.” As self-proclaimed language experts, these men know full well that their title means “Lord.” Regardless of the word used, that is who they think they are to us. Local radio ministry here, (in a predominately Baptist influenced city of a million people), suddenly changed their verbiage, and literally chanted one of those phrases on the air. Doctrine-based churches are most susceptible to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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