Salvation is in your hands, Jesus did his part.

[FreeGrace]

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

FreeGrace said: 

No, no, let's not "stop right here".  I'm tired of your ignoring the most clear verses on eternal security in the Bible.  All you've done is just keep going with your own agenda and won't deal with these 2 very clear verses.

Ok, I'll do this another way. Let's deal with it then.

Well, finally.   

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Let's start with just John 5:24 first. I'll post the verse, no problem.  24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

So the next mind set to have is, how would God know if a person truly believe. Anybody can say they believe, but Jesus showed us and gave us an example of how he walk.

Your question is really off the wall.  Are you actually discounting the FACT that God is omniscient??  The Bible SAYS that God "knows everything".  Why don't you believe that?  1 John 3:20 - If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.

Those who claim that Jesus Christ is their Savior MUST believe Scripture.

Second, how Jesus walked has NOTHING to do with the issue of eternal security.  So your whole argument is flawed.

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

The first thing Jesus start preaching was repentance. Jesus says in   Luke 5:32   I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. So that tells me that a sinner cannot receive everlasting life in the good side of the kingdom of God. Because everlasting damnation is on another side of the kingdom of God. (But that a lesson for another time). We all will be raise and live forever, one way or another...food for thought...

You said you would deal with John 5:24, but what do you do?  Go to other verses, as if they "explain" Jn 5:24.  The real issue is that you don't want to deal with what Jesus said in John 5:24, because that verse, plus 10:28 prove eternal security.

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

So let's find more information about sin.

More irrelevant distraction from the real issue.  Jesus Christ paid the entire sin debt, but it seems clear that those who believe that salvation can be lost really don't believe that He did, since they keep making sin the issue.  It isn't.

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

 Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

Once again, is CANNOT be the issue in one's salvation, since Jesus paid it all.  

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

 If a person wants to have everlasting life, then that person needs to stop breaking the law (Commandments).

You are STILL not dealing with John 5:24.  And you DON'T HAVE any verse that supports your claim here.  Why doesn't that bother you?

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

 A man asked Jesus this very question, "...What good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?", and Jesus replied, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matthew 19:16-19).

More irrelevant distraction from the FACT that those who believe possess eternal life, per John 5:24.  Eternal life is given WHEN one believes.  And you won't deal with that.

56 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

 This was a direct answer to a direct question, which all of us will do well to take heed to. Anybody can claim to have faith, but actions speak louder than words. Faith and works go together and you can't have one without the other. "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Revelation 14:12). 

I have more to this first verse John 5: 24, but I have continue later.

So far, you haven't even touched the verse, other than to quote it, and go off into the weeds with just a bunch of irrelevant verses and claims, none of which address salvation's security.

[Bro.Tan]

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his. 

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today. 

Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments. Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life. We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4)  and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

The commandments of God are not hard to keep

No, not hard at all.  Just IMPOSSIBLE to keep.  Which the Bible SAYS.

Rom3:20 - Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.

The Law was never about getting saved.  It was about showing man his sin.  Romans 7 is all about that.

Rom 7:7 - What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

(I John 5:3)

"In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,"

This verse isn't about salvation, but about HOW to demonstrate one's love for God;  keeping His commandments.

So, you've quoted a verse that has NOTHING TO DO with your claim.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15).

Correct here.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents.

Actually if one DOES DO these things, they will SURELY DISPLEASE the Lord.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

Correct.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

 This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

Yes, the Law is holy, just, and good.  But the FACT is; no human has or will ever keep the Law perfectly.  And that would be the ONLY WAY one can earn salvation.  Rom 2:6-8

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

 Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments.

But not for salvation.  It is for showing one's love for God.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life.

Now you're way off the track again.  Only keeping the Law perfectly, which NO MAN can do, will earn eternal life.  The Bible says so.  And Rom 3:20 proves that no one will be saved by the Law.  That is impossible.

Don't you realize that if one could earn salvation by the Law, they wouldn't need God's grace or the Savior's sacrifice???????   Please address this huge hole in your theory.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance.

This is ALL FOULED UP.  The point of Jesus' death on the cross is PRECISELY because man cannot earn salvation by any means.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4)  and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

If you really believed this, why do you continue to harp on trying to keep the law for salvation?  You're being very contradictory.

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

There is NOTHING in Acts 4:12 about getting baptized.  

What is clear is that you are WAY FAR from what Scripture says.  It shows you have no concept of what GRACE is or means.

Memorize Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:4,5 so that you will hopefully realize that there is NOTHING anyone can do to earn salvation.  Salvation is received just as a gift is received.  Passively.  We take what is offered.  Through faith in the finished work of Christ, we are saved.

[Bro.Tan]

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”? He told you plainly: (Ex 20:8-10) (v.8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) “But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God”. 

Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16) 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

Quote

No one is saved through water baptism.

So we can ignore Jesus' command to be baptized?

Maybe Jesus meant it was just a suggestion and if we opt out it's no bid deal...

[FreeGrace]

51 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Jesus say in (Mat.7:21) “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven”. For students to succeed in school, students learn to follow their teachers' instructions, and learn their lessons carefully. But few apply this method when they are dealing with the word of God. Is Jesus your Lord? Then why don’t you do the things he says. (Luke 6:46) “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say”?

Matt 7:21-23 is commonly misunderstood.  Only reading v.21 does grave harm to truth, since Jesus said more than just that one verse.

v.22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

v.23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

In v.21 Jesus was pointing out that not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom.  Clearly they are hoping to.

in v.22 "on that day" is a specific day;  the GWT judgment.  Then note what the crowd said.  What was their appeal for entering the kingdom based on?  What THEY DID.  iow, their works.  

Yet, in v.23, we read Jesus' response to the crowd.  He said, "I NEVER knew you".  I capitalized the word "never" which is significant.  Obviously Jesus as God is omniscient and therefore does know everyone.  but the word here for "knew" isn't just simple knowing of facts, but speaks of an intimate knowledge from experience.  

This clearly shows that none of the crowd had ever put their faith in His finished work on the cross.  

The crowd was clearly trusting on what THEY DID rather than trusting on what JESUS DID for them on the cross.  

Back to v.21; just what is the "will of My Father" that Jesus mentioned?

John 6:40 - For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Jesus began the discussion about the crowd on what the Father's will is.  v.21

Then Jesus noted what the crowd were basing their appeal for entrance into the kingdom was;  their own works.

Finally, Jesus flatly told them that He NEVER knew them from personal experience.  iow, none of them had ever placed their faith in Him.

They were trusting in what THEY DID rather than trusting in what JESUS DID for them.

[FreeGrace]

30 minutes ago, Stan Murff said:

So we can ignore Jesus' command to be baptized?

No, but the command has NOTHING to do with getting saved.

we are saved by grace (not baptism) through faith, and not of yourselves (no works).

[NConly]

30 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

This clearly shows that none of the crowd had ever put their faith in His finished work on the cross.  

I take a different view. Jesus tells us in 1 Peter 5:

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Seems he will be working on those who keep faith but have a hard time kicking the old man out.

then we have Phili 1:

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

which indicates His work began on the cross; not finished but one must keep the faith and try to shed sin and ask for forgiveness when one stumbles and or falls.

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, NConly said:

FreeGrace said: 

This clearly shows that none of the crowd had ever put their faith in His finished work on the cross. 

I take a different view. Jesus tells us in 1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Seems he will be working on those who keep faith but have a hard time kicking the old man out.

Not sure how this relates to Matt 7:21-23.  He told that works oriented crowd that He never knew (experientially) them.  That means they never believed in Him.

Further there are 2 verses that tell us who will be condemned (cast into the LOF).

John 3:18 -  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 -  and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The words "have not believed" means "never believed".  Only those who have ever believed are saved from the LOF condemnation.

12 hours ago, NConly said:

then we have Phili 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

which indicates His work began on the cross; not finished but one must keep the faith and try to shed sin and ask for forgiveness when one stumbles and or falls.

This verse is another guarantee of salvation, or eternal security.  

The believer's lifestyle will be evaluated at the Bema, and then he/she will either receive reward or not.  But all believers will enter the kingdom.

[farouk]

14 hours ago, NConly said:

I take a different view. Jesus tells us in 1 Peter 5:

10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Seems he will be working on those who keep faith but have a hard time kicking the old man out.

then we have Phili 1:

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

which indicates His work began on the cross; not finished but one must keep the faith and try to shed sin and ask for forgiveness when one stumbles and or falls.

@NConly This is a great verse in Philippians 1.6. The finished work of Christ is stressed in Hebrews 9 and 10; the grace of God is stressed in Ephesians 2. These are all precious angles of Gospel truth.