The Barbarian Posted January 7 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7 (edited) Genetics has shown that there's a common ancestor of all living things on Earth today. 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: No, Yes. And we can check that by looking at the DNA of organisms of known descent. It's true. 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: it has shown biological commonality It shows common descent. That's how we can determine paternity and where your ancestors lived. No point in denial. You don't want to believe that it shows common descent because you revere creationism over the word of God. You've confused adaptation and evolution. 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Not at all. Yes, that's what you've done. I showed you before, but once more... Getting a suntan is adaptation, but not evolution. A mutation that has no effect on survival is evolution but not adaptation. A mutation that provides protection against virus infection is evolution and adaptation. Please try to remember the difference; it would make you much more effective in your arguments. No one who understands the observed phenomenon of evolution would think it was a Satanic lie. 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Nazi's didn't think the master race was a Satanic lie. That was a common creationist idea in the first half of the 20th century. However, Darwinians like Punnet and Morgan showed that the Nazi eugenics ideas were scientifically impractical. Of course Darwin had long before described eugenic ideas as an "overwhelming evil." (Descent of Man) 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Mormons don't believe their religion is a Satanic lie, nor do Buddhists, Jehovah's Witnesses, or any other religion. None of those religions are "a Satanic lie." They are mistaken about some things. So are you. Doesn't mean that you follow a Satanic lie. I don't think you intend to undermine the faith of other Christians 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: I'm not on a Christian website trying to convince Christians that their Bible is wrong, True. I'm surely you truly believe your new version of scripture. Error is not a lie. 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Adam's actions were inconsequential, Noah was just a dude with a big boat and God pretty much ignored His creation for billions of years. Well, you're wrong about all that, of course. Original sin is a fact, Noah was used by God to teach us something important,and of course as I showed you, God is involved with every particle of our universe, and always has been. 47 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: What part, specifically, of the flood narrative makes you think it was local? God used "land" rather than "world" to describe the extent of the flood. And the figurative language used shows that it was an allegory (which might have been about a real event). The earth isn't flat under a domed sky with windows in it through which rain can fall. If He said "tevel", rather than "eretz" that would have been different. Edited January 7 by The Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted January 11 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted January 11 On 1/7/2024 at 9:52 AM, The Barbarian said: It shows common descent. That's how we can determine paternity and where your ancestors lived. You can use DNA to show paternity, but not the origins of man. Man's DNA has similarity to other species because of the common Creator and the common blueprint for life that He used. Looking at the DNA of a mule we see commonalities between horses and donkey's. If we looked at the evidence objectively we may see the mule as an intermediary species and the horse as more evolved. However, we breed mules and mules are sterile. So that which is known overrides that which is suggested by the evidence. Whether you seek evidence for the validity of God's word or evidence against the validity of God's word, you will find enough of either to suit you. On 1/7/2024 at 9:52 AM, The Barbarian said: You've confused adaptation and evolution. You've confused an observed process with a universal common progenitor despite God's word saying the opposite. You seem to value evidence from the creation above evidence from the Creator. On 1/7/2024 at 9:52 AM, The Barbarian said: No one who understands the observed phenomenon of evolution would think it was a Satanic lie. Muslims don't think Islam is a Satanic lie, either. Jesus warned us of the false Christs to come who would deceive many. On 1/7/2024 at 9:52 AM, The Barbarian said: That was a common creationist idea in the first half of the 20th century. I don't think it was just creationists who considered the master race theory a Satanic lie. Pretty much all non-Aryans would argue against the master race claims. On 1/7/2024 at 9:52 AM, The Barbarian said: None of those religions are "a Satanic lie." Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the light. Non man comes unto the Father but by me." There is one truth and many, many lies. For example, bread doesn't turn into human flesh because a priest recites a passage from the Bible (Catholicism). Each human being does not contain many alien spirits that were trapped in volcanos by hydrogen bombs (Scientology), a righteous man cannot control his wife’s access to eternal paradise (Mormonism), waving a chicken over your head can take away your sins (Judaism), a prophet NEVER traveled between two cities on a miniature flying horse with the face of a woman and the tail of a peacock (Islam). On 1/7/2024 at 9:52 AM, The Barbarian said: I'm surely you truly believe your new version of scripture. Pretty much every modern text says exactly the same thing, with slightly different wording. On 1/7/2024 at 9:52 AM, The Barbarian said: God used "land" rather than "world" to describe the extent of the flood. Again, Genesis chapter 7. Read what God actually said about the flood. 18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. Local flood? Affecting only a small region of the earth? Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted January 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 4 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: You can use DNA to show paternity, but not the origins of man. I see your denial, but the evidence is more persuasive. Sorry. 5 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Man's DNA has similarity to other species because of the common Creator and the common blueprint for life that He used. No, that excuse won't work, either. If that was right, bats and birds would have more similar DNA than bats and whales. But they don't. You've confused homology with descent. This is why the Bible says that bats are birds; the Hebrews classified things functionally, with whales being fish and bats being birds in their system. Today, we use descent to classify things, and as you know, DNA analysis shows common descent. 8 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Local flood? Affecting only a small region of the earth? As you learned, if God meant the entire world, He would have said so. Hence, He says "the land", not "the entire world." I know this is not what you want it to be. But there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted January 11 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: No, that excuse won't work, either. If that was right, bats and birds would have more similar DNA than bats and whales. When you design your own world, I'll take your word for it. Bats and birds have different physiology. Why would they have similar DNA? Do locusts and birds have the same DNA? They are both called fowl. 2 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: if God meant the entire world, He would have said so. Hence, He says "the land", not "the entire world." It is not possible to read the words I posted and not realize that it describes a global flood unless your mind is too blind to see the plain truth. You need to spend more time in the word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted January 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 (edited) No, that excuse won't work, either. If that was right, bats and birds would have more similar DNA than bats and whales. 11 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Bats and birds have different physiology. Different DNA. Because they are descended from different living things. Birds, for example have a very efficient breathing system because they are descended from dinosaurs that had it. Bats have the same system we do, because bats and humans are descended from therapsid reptiles, not dinosaurs. It would be great for bats to have the better system, but they are limited by their descent. Birds also have feathers, because they descended from dinosaurs which had feathers. It would be great for bats to have them, but again, they are limited by their mammalian ancestry. I understand how much you want the flood of Noah to have been a world wide flood. But neither scripture nor the evidence support that belief. Edited January 11 by The Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted January 11 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted January 11 Just now, The Barbarian said: Because they are descended from different living things. Only in the furtive imagination of man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted January 11 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 11 Because they are descended from different living things. Just now, RV_Wizard said: Only in the furtive imagination of man. Evidence. As you know, DNA shows descent. And we can check that by looking at organisms of known descent. Always works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted January 13 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted January 13 On 1/11/2024 at 10:09 AM, The Barbarian said: Things that were worded incorrectly. Birds, for example have a very efficient breathing system because they are designed by God to have it. Bats have the same system we do because designed by God to have it. Bats and humans are created by God, not descended from therapsid reptiles. Since we didn't design the bat, we defer to the God who did. Birds also have feathers, because they were designed by God to have them. They descended from other birds through a bottle neck on the ark, that were created by God on day five. I understand how much you want the flood of Noah to have been a local flood, but neither scripture nor the evidence support that belief. We know that the area in which Noah lived was relatively flat with easy run-off to the sea, so that any flood deep enough to cover a mountain would first have to raise sea level by that amount. We know that for an ark to rest on a mountain peak it had to have been left there by receding waters. We know that there are fossils on mountain peaks, and a major upshift would have more than likely buried them too deep to be found. We know that there are diamonds and oil in the earth that were provided by God, because the earth hasn't existed long enough for those things to form naturally. We know that illness and death came into the world because of the sin of man; prior to which there was no death. We know that the wages of sin are death, and that the salvation of man rests solely with the son of God who sacrificed Himself so that all may find eternal life. We know that science is the study of the natural word, and as such cannot prove nor disprove anything supernatural. We know that God is eternal; without beginning or end; and that His creation is only our temporary home. We know these things not because they are told about in a book written by men, but because they are revealed to us by God through His divine inspiration. We know that God is not far off, but as close as our own heart if we truly seek Him. We know that Jesus knocks on our door and if we open it, He will come into our lives and save us from destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted January 13 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Birds, for example have a very efficient breathing system because they are designed by God to have it. They have it because they are dinosaurs, which evolved a more efficient respiratory system earlier. 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Bats have the same system we do because designed by God to have it. They have the same system we do because mammals evolved from therapsids, which did not have the better system. 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: I understand how much you want the flood of Noah to have been a local flood Since God never said it was a global flood, and given there is no evidence for such a flood, I can only go with God's word. You should, too. 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: We know that the area in which Noah lived was relatively flat with easy run-off to the sea Here, you assume where Noah lived. In fact, the Bible doesn't say. But since the Ark came to rest in the Mountains of Ararat (not Mt. Ararat) that would put him near what would become the Black Sea. 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: We know that there are fossils on mountain peaks, and a major upshift would have more than likely buried them too deep to be found. No. I've been up in the Cascades. No fossils. You were fooled about that. Some peaks have ocean fossils because they were part of an ocean floor for a very long time, for layers of fossils to form. 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: We know that there are diamonds and oil in the earth that were provided by God, because the earth hasn't existed long enough for those things to form naturally. Diamonds are formed in a few minutes in labs today. They can take longer, but you were fooled about that, too. And if you can solve all your difficulties by calling in an unscriptural miracle every time your ideas don't work, any story can be supported. 3 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: We know that illness and death came into the world because of the sin of man You were misled about that too. The serpent used the same reasoning, telling Eve that she would not die the day she ate from the tree, contradicting God. The serpent was a biblical literalist, and he pretended that God was speaking of a physical death when in fact God was speaking of a spiritual death instead. He lied to her by telling part of the truth. You profess to love God. If you truly believe in Him, why not just believe Him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted January 14 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted January 14 9 hours ago, The Barbarian said: You say, They have it because.... They have the same system we do because... God said, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Who should I believe? Sorry, it isn't you. 9 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Since God never said it was a global flood, Perhaps the flood was local... as in, confined to our planet. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. That looks pretty inclusive to me. Those were God's words in that pesky Fourth Commandment you don't accept. 9 hours ago, The Barbarian said: I've been up in the Cascades. No fossils. Some peaks have ocean fossils because they were part of an ocean floor for a very long time.... Wait.... there are fossils on the mountain peaks but there are fossils on mountain peaks? Are you Biden's speechwriter?? 9 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Diamonds are formed in a few minutes in labs today. Yes, and they are better; no inclusions. Not a relevant argument, though. 9 hours ago, The Barbarian said: You were misled about that too. So Paul lied? Romans 5:12 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: .... 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) For a Christian, you certainly deny much of the Scriptures in deference to your primary religion; evolution. 9 hours ago, The Barbarian said: The serpent was a biblical literalist, and he pretended that God was speaking of a physical death when in fact God was speaking of a spiritual death instead. No, God said he would surely die, and on that day his death was assured. God didn't say death would be instantaneous, only sure. God had other plans for Adam. Satan used God's word out of context, just as some here do as well. That's why I post the relevant verses, not just a fragment that may be taken to agree with my contention. The devil is great at misquoting the Bible and claiming the opposite of what is written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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