The Barbarian Posted February 28 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: The Bible states very clearly that by the end of day six the plants and animals were all created. Which is why you refuse to acknowledge the entire passage; because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Because you deleted the passage that says the sun wasn't created until the third day, you continue to falsely claim those "days" were literal days, rather than figurative, as the text itself tells you. I don't think you're intentionally deceptive; I think you're so indoctrinated that you can't accept Genesis as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 29 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted February 29 11 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Which is why you refuse to acknowledge the entire passage; because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Because you deleted the passage that says the sun wasn't created until the third day, you continue to falsely claim those "days" were literal days, rather than figurative, as the text itself tells you. The truth is not within you in any form or fashion, is it? How many times have I referenced the creation of the sun, moon and stars on day four? One would have to scroll back only two pages to find a post of mine that references the creation of the sun, moon and stars on day four. You, however, have NEVER accepted that God created light on the first day. You CONTINUE to misrepresent the Scriptures and claim that the text itself reveals it to be figurative. Why? Because if Genesis is true every word you've posted is a lie. Bad news for you; Genesis is true. I have challenged you to show how any light striking the earth would not reveal an evening and a morning with a single rotation of the planet. You can't answer this, because a five year old with a flashlight and a basketball in a dark room could blow your claim out of the water. It doesn't require the sun illuminating the earth to make a day. Any light would do. Let's take light out of the equation and say that the first three days didn't count. The only living things on the earth at the beginning of day five were grasses, herbs, tree bearing fruit, and the rest of the plant kingdom. The sequence of creation STILL invalidates evolution. Fishes and whales (which are mammals) are created, along with the birds of the air on day five. Land animals ware created on day six, followed by the formation of man from the dust of the earth. Man was created by God from the beginning. We didn't evolve from anything. For anything you say to be true, the entire first chapter of Genesis must be false. Therefore, don't claim you believe it. Anyone who believes two things in direct contradiction is insane. Regarding the fall of man, which you CLAIM didn't affect the animal kingdom, there is another verse you refuse to believe. Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. There was no death before the fall. There was no evolution. Your religion is false. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 29 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted February 29 13 hours ago, FreeGrace said: I've shown how certain words in Gen 1:2 are translated and used elsewhere in Scripture, which you simply ignore/reject. That's how scholars determine the meaning of words; checking how they are used in other texts, which I've done. Anyone can do it on biblehub.com for themselves. You're still pushing this tripe? Why not answer my question? Restoration from what? You never explained how this earth BECAME a wasteland when there was no sun, moon or stars; just a rock floating in the cold darkness of space. How could it have been anything else? There was no light, no heat and no life prior to the beginning of creation. Light came on day one. Your claim is completely ludicrous. Became requires a previous condition. In absolute darkness and absolute zero, how could the earth be anything else? You are professing Gap Theory; claiming millions of years could have elapsed between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. How? How did anything exist in absolute zero with no light and no atmosphere? Even geothermal heat wouldn't work because there was no source of oxygen for any life form to exist. It's flat out crazy to think that any life or civilization could have existed even momentarily before then. Gap Theory was created by people who wanted to try and wedge long ages into the creation and pass off their heresy as a plausible theory. Frankly, even the lie of evolution makes more sense. Give it up. IT'S FALSE TEACHING!! Read the Scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 29 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: I have challenged you to show how any light striking the earth would not reveal an evening and a morning with a single rotation of the planet. If you were right, then moonrise would be morning. You already know your argument is false. Why keep trying and failing each time? This is why you refuse to acknowledge the entire passage; because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Because you deleted the passage that says the sun wasn't created until the third day, you continue to falsely claim those "days" were literal days, rather than figurative, as the text itself tells you. I don't think you're intentionally deceptive; I think you're so indoctrinated that you can't accept Genesis as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 29 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted February 29 8 hours ago, The Barbarian said: If you were right, then moonrise would be morning. Once again you toss out an idiotic argument that doesn't address subject. IF there was a moon that actually illuminated the earth and IF there was no sun to shine brighter, THEN the light of the moon, being the only light, would identify night and day; and a single rotation of the earth. So, there is darkness in space and a light shining on the earth as it rotates. WHAT PREVENTS THE LIGHT FROM SHINING OIN THE EARTH TO MAKE NIGHT AND DAY??? Stupid non-answers will not be accepted. A light similar to the sun (and possibly being the sun; just not so named) shines onto the earth making a single rotation of the earth a single day with morning, mid-day, evening and darkness. What keeps that from being a day any different than the other days? Your claim is that this MUST signify long ages because it can't be a literal day. Prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RV_Wizard Posted February 29 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 773 Content Per Day: 0.83 Reputation: 327 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/05/1962 Author Share Posted February 29 8 hours ago, The Barbarian said: Because you deleted the passage that says the sun wasn't created until the third day, Everyone here knows you're lying. I referenced my post from page 21. I've mentioned dozens of times that the sun, moon and stars were created on the FOURTH day of creation. Grasses, trees and vegetation were created on the third day. If you had a clue what you were talking about you wouldn't look so foolish. First three days, "light" only. Day four, "light" becomes the sun, moon and stars (no more other light). It's in the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 29 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,460 Content Per Day: 8.09 Reputation: 617 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: You're still pushing this tripe? Interesting that you call FACTS "tripe". 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Why not answer my question? Restoration from what? You never explained how this earth BECAME a wasteland when there was no sun, moon or stars; just a rock floating in the cold darkness of space. How could it have been anything else? There was no light, no heat and no life prior to the beginning of creation. Light came on day one. Thanks for showing that you really don't read the posts of others with whom you disagree. And your "responses" certainly prove it. I've answered this many times, but given your closed mind, nothing is getting in. Well, maybe this time. God did not provide ANY details of what or how the earth became an uninhabitable wasteland. But the Hebrew clearly shows that is what happened. btw, just because God created sun and moon and stars doesn't make that original creation. Remember, since v.2 SAYS that the earth became a wasteland, God restored the planet for man's use. That would include things like sun, moon and stars. What we don't know is all that was created in v.1. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Your claim is completely ludicrous. Well, I claim what the Bible claims. So if that is your assessment, it's on you. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Became requires a previous condition. Exactly. What we find in Genesis 1:2ff isn't original creation. In v.1 God created a perfect earth and universe. In v.2 the earth became something it wasn't created as, and therefore God restored it for man's use. This isn't complicated or difficult at all. It just takes an open mind, objectivity and a hunger for truth. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: In absolute darkness and absolute zero, how could the earth be anything else? You are professing Gap Theory; claiming millions of years could have elapsed between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. I've addressed this fallacy many times. I have provided NO theory at all. Whatever would be a theory is what may have happened between v.1 and 2 that led to the earth becoming an uninhabitable wasteland. And I have frequently said that God didn't give us any details. Why is that so hard to accept? 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: How? How did anything exist in absolute zero with no light and no atmosphere? You're assuming things here. Just accept the reality that v.1 is original creation, and we don't know anything about it. v.2 picks up AFTER the destruction of earth, so God restored it for man's use. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Even geothermal heat wouldn't work because there was no source of oxygen for any life form to exist. It's flat out crazy to think that any life or civilization could have existed even momentarily before then. Gap Theory was created by people who wanted to try and wedge long ages into the creation and pass off their heresy as a plausible theory. Again, this is just more assuming. It only takes an open mind to understand. And v.2 in the Hebrew makes clear that there was a time period where the earth became a wreck. And you're bothered because God didn't let you in on it. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Frankly, even the lie of evolution makes more sense. Wow. Now, that IS sick. Very sick. I've provided what the Hebrew says, based on how the words are used and translated elsewhere, and you claim that evolution makes more sense. You don't even know what you are saying. Evolutionists, who deny God, claim the universe and earth is very old. And have concocted a godless theory as to how things developed. I say the earth and universe is also very old, but have a much more realistic and logical answer as to why that is. And you claim evolution is more sensible. You have just showed how senseless you are. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Give it up. IT'S FALSE TEACHING!! Read the Scriptures. Why don't you read the Scriptures? In fact, I have given you the literal Hebrew over and over and you do is insult the Scriptures, and cling to a very poor and senseless translation of Gen 1:2. That's all you have. Nothing more. Biblehub.com provides 32 English translations of Gen 1:2. Most just copied what the KJV wrote. However, consider these 5: American Standard Version And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Aramaic Bible in Plain English The Earth was chaos and empty and darkness on the faces of the depths and the Spirit of God hovered on the faces of the waters. Brenton Septuagint Translation But the earth was unsightly and unfurnished, and darkness was over the deep, and the Spirit of God moved over the water. English Revised Version And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Young's Literal Translation the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters, These 5 translations properly translated "tohu". Now, just to make clear how senseless your view is about v.2, you are claiming that original creation involved unsightly waste and chaos, according to these 5 translations. You thought I was just making up things. Well, I assure you I had nothing to do with ANY translation of Genesis, or any other book of the Bible. But here they are, showing clearly that in v.2 the earth was a mess. So, you have to admit that God created a mess, that He had to fiddle with before He could place man on it. That is totally senseless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 29 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,460 Content Per Day: 8.09 Reputation: 617 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: There was no death before the fall. That is an assumption without any base. Once God restored the earth and created man for it, there was no death until Adam sinned. That's the truth. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: There was no evolution. That is quite corrrect. It is merely a theory, and a godless one at that. 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Your religion is false. All religion is false. Didn't you know that? Or are you unaware of the HUGE difference between Christianity and all religions? If you know, what is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted February 29 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,460 Content Per Day: 8.09 Reputation: 617 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29 36 minutes ago, RV_Wizard said: Everyone here knows you're lying. I referenced my post from page 21. I've mentioned dozens of times that the sun, moon and stars were created on the FOURTH day of creation. Grasses, trees and vegetation were created on the third day. If you had a clue what you were talking about you wouldn't look so foolish. First three days, "light" only. Day four, "light" becomes the sun, moon and stars (no more other light). It's in the book. This isn't creation, but restoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted February 29 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,074 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 970 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 29 (edited) 10 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Everyone here knows you're lying. That accusation comes too easily to you. It isn't a good thing for you. First you tried to hide the problem by telling us that a big light in the sky would be morning. But if so, moonrise would be morning. The text itself says you're wrong. But you rebel against the text because it doesn't say what you want. You want to change the definition of words to fit your needs. C'mon. 20 hours ago, RV_Wizard said: Frankly, even the lie of evolution makes more sense. As you learned, evolution is directly observed today. It happens in all populations , including human populations. I showed you examples. Yet you continue to rebel against God's creation because it doesn't fit your wishes. Edited February 29 by The Barbarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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