Eating Unclean Food Is an Abomination to the Lord!

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

3 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Romans 14 Ch is in no way saying a person can eat unclean food. Jesus say For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:46-47) 

So, if you call yourself a New Testament Christian, and don't read and believe Moses' writings, how can you believe in Jesus?T his is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. Leviticus 11:46-47 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Leviticus 11:44) 

Hebrews shows us this

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after

So when Jesus said,

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Because Moses was for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after (by Jesus Christ)

As it is written

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

As Jesus confirms what is written there saying

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Then the next verse 

Deut 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus confirms what is written there again

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Apostles confirm this is Jesus Christ

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

And again, here as well confirming this is speaking of Jesus Christ

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Jesus again,

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

He was told what to say, spoke by commandment

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me (Exod 4:15), I speak these things.

Jesus speaking by commandment according to what Moses said

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

So again, "HAD YE BELIEVED" Moses

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

And again, because Moses was for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after by Jesus Christ (of tribe of Juda) of which tribe Moses spake nothing  concerning the priesthood.

And so we have the New testament in His blood, a testament in force after men are dead (and Christ is begotten from the dead and made a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek) not Aaron

And so after Jesus was risen from the dead he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen Acts 1:2 As they tell us " For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus." 1 Thes 4:2

So even when the LORD does not change the priesthood is shown as changed and by necessity a change of law. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:13 AM, Bro.Tan said:

Romans 14 Ch is in no way saying a person can eat unclean food. Jesus say For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:46-47) 

So, if you call yourself a New Testament Christian, and don't read and believe Moses' writings, how can you believe in Jesus?T his is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. Leviticus 11:46-47 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Leviticus 11:44) 

I'm just curious. Are you suggesting that the entire law of Moses which was written for ISRAEL is binding on all Christians today? Because there are at least a dozen passages that say otherwise.

[Bro.Tan]

35 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I'm just curious. Are you suggesting that the entire law of Moses which was written for ISRAEL is binding on all Christians today? Because there are at least a dozen passages that say otherwise.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). 

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/19/2023 at 2:27 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

Hebrews shows us this

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after

So when Jesus said,

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Because Moses was for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after (by Jesus Christ)

As it is written

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

As Jesus confirms what is written there saying

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Then the next verse 

Deut 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus confirms what is written there again

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Apostles confirm this is Jesus Christ

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

And again, here as well confirming this is speaking of Jesus Christ

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

Jesus again,

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

He was told what to say, spoke by commandment

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me (Exod 4:15), I speak these things.

Jesus speaking by commandment according to what Moses said

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

So again, "HAD YE BELIEVED" Moses

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

And again, because Moses was for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after by Jesus Christ (of tribe of Juda) of which tribe Moses spake nothing  concerning the priesthood.

And so we have the New testament in His blood, a testament in force after men are dead (and Christ is begotten from the dead and made a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedek) not Aaron

And so after Jesus was risen from the dead he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen Acts 1:2 As they tell us " For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus." 1 Thes 4:2

So even when the LORD does not change the priesthood is shown as changed and by necessity a change of law. 

That's true, but understanding that, one must still understand what Jesus says in In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. You will see the information needed to answer this will be found in the Old Testament. This itself serves as further proof as to how erroneous the position of doing away with the Old Testament is.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). 

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

30 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

That's true, but understanding that, one must still understand what Jesus says in In (Matthew 5:18), Jesus Himself states For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17). But one needs to find out what He was to fulfill, since that is the condition put forth in (Matthew 5:18), when He said no letter would pass from the law until all is fulfilled. You will see the information needed to answer this will be found in the Old Testament. This itself serves as further proof as to how erroneous the position of doing away with the Old Testament is.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins). 

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12). 

Bro Tan, this is probably the first of your posts that is a bit mish mashed up in such a way I don't even know what it is really about let alone how to begin respond to it.  So you are going to have to forgive me if I don't respond much at all.  And I am a little  afraid to ask, because I am tired. You have law as prophesy, moral laws as meats and his coming quickly there.

I'll just leave that there.

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/19/2023 at 1:52 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

So here is my question though, does that which count as your sabbath days always land on the Gregorian calendar day Saturday for example?  Given the leap years and all of that sort of thing? For example, if you say the day to rest is Saturday (not Sunday) for example, isn't that still within the whole Gregorian calendar days that were brought in around the 1500's? Or does that not effect where the first and seventh day lands within that same calendar used today? I mean how do we know the Wednesday isn't really the first day of the week but we count it according to the Gregorian calendar as mid week, see what I am asking? 

I'm not expert in explaining this, but I understand what you saying. I think each month represents one lunar cycle. However, occasionally a thirteenth month must be added to the year to keep the calendar in sync with the sun and seasons. Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 

That correction was, like the Gregorian Calendar, a response to a religious problem. According to the Torah, the holyday Passover must fall in the season of spring, because that is the beginning of the year. Dates on the Calendar do shift back and forth each year in relationship to a solar calendar. That is why Passover can begin anywhere from late March to mid-April.

 

On 11/19/2023 at 1:52 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

And if Abraham had two wives representing two covenants why would the one representing the Jerusalem that then was be the one cast out (which is the one which observed these things)?

 

 

 

Well, Abraham had three wives, but only Sarah was the wive of children under the covenant. But I agree, all Abraham children should be serving the same God he serve. 

 

[Bro.Tan]

4 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

Bro Tan, this is probably the first of your posts that is a bit mish mashed up in such a way I don't even know what it is really about let alone how to begin respond to it.  So you are going to have to forgive me if I don't respond much at all.  And I am a little  afraid to ask, because I am tired. You have law as prophesy, moral laws as meats and his coming quickly there.

I'll just leave that there.

Basically the Bible is saying that the laws that we are not under are the laws that concern the priesthood laws. All the others Commandments, Statues, and Judgement are still on the table. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

4 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

I'm not expert in explaining this, but I understand what you saying. I think each month represents one lunar cycle. However, occasionally a thirteenth month must be added to the year to keep the calendar in sync with the sun and seasons. Genesis 1: 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 

That correction was, like the Gregorian Calendar, a response to a religious problem. According to the Torah, the holyday Passover must fall in the season of spring, because that is the beginning of the year. Dates on the Calendar do shift back and forth each year in relationship to a solar calendar. That is why Passover can begin anywhere from late March to mid-April.

I'll look into this 

 

4 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Well, Abraham had three wives, but only Sarah was the wive of children under the covenant. But I agree, all Abraham children should be serving the same God he serve. 

 

Abraham being "a prophet" is shown having two which represent two covenants

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants

1 Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;  comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Gen 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: 
for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

The one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

His third wife was after Sarah died and  isn't shown as the two covenants in that picture

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

1 hour ago, Bro.Tan said:

Basically the Bible is saying that the laws that we are not under are the laws that concern the priesthood laws. All the others Commandments, Statues, and Judgement are still on the table. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Paul says in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin.

I still cannot make sense of what you are trying to say,  or what point you are trying to make here. I have no argument with Jesus words there, or either verses of scripture you posted., as far as Romans 4:5, I am just posting that one in its context

Romans 4:3 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:4 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Romans 4:5 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Not catching how they might apply to bacon, but when you mention the statutes and judgments as being on the table do you mean these?

Because the wording around the statutes and judgments as shown here, are mentioned in the same manner in the NT by Paul (last 4 verses see below)

Leviticus 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

Neh 9:26 And testifiedst against them, that thou mightest bring them again unto thy law: yet they dealt proudly, and hearkened not unto thy commandments, but sinned against thy judgments, (which if a man do, he shall live in them;) and withdrew the shoulder, and hardened their neck, and would not hear.

Ezekiel 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury  upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Exekiel 20:21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.

Mentioned in the New testament this way

Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Again, mentioned in the New testament this way

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

And again mentioned in the New testament this way

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

There is an interesting one I left out Neh 10:29 because I do not know what's going on there yet, I will post that one on its own below.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Adding this in below my post rather than add it in because I haven't looked at it yet

Same wording, inclusive of his judgments and statutes here also

Neh 10:29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes