Eating Unclean Food Is an Abomination to the Lord!

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

1 hour ago, Anne2 said:

There is a story of David being displeased.

9  And when they came unto the threshingfloor of Chidon, Uzza put forth his hand to hold the ark; for the oxen stumbled.
10  And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzza, and he smote him, because he put his hand to the ark: and there he died before God.
11  And David was displeased, because the LORD had made a breach upon Uzza: wherefore that place is called Perezuzza to this day.

But his response was not despising the Law of Moses, rather he feared God....

So, he took the ark no further, and waited.

This somewhat reminds me of those times people get mad at God. But once the grief eases they forget their anger and you just go on with God still.

Similarly, when touching upon fear as far as the things which pertain to the law and being struck down it shows the same here likewise

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

Heb12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake)

Same with Uzza reaching his hand out there to steady the Ark when the oxen stumbled

1 C 13:12 And David was afraid of God that day, saying, How shall I bring the ark of God home to me?

So the whole concept that if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart

Seems a bit harsh (even to me) so wouldn't that thought (in me) indicate my own displeasure? But at the same time recognizing how fearful such a thing be done because of that act. Which appears a little similar to Moses who was said to be exceedingly fearful in respect to the mount .

I always wondered if Uzza's hand being reached out like that have something to do with,  how that might make God's hand appear, for example, would his hand be thought to be too short, or weak or something? I don't know, but given the words in Joshua 4:24 when the Ark went over the waters and showing us the sign of the 12 stones and what they were to tell their children concerning it that would be that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.

So a man's hand steadying the Ark really doesn't bode well for the mighty hand of the LORD in such a legacy which they are to tell their children, no matter how well intended that latter incident might be. Cant really say I looked into it so much.

But as far as the despising the the LORD, you can take it from the imagination part also

For example here

Jerm 3:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh  after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

The imaginations of our heart are spoken of here in respects to our obedience to Christ, where we are instructed in

2 Cr 10:5-6 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Or run the same off of having "peace"

Jerm 3:17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that and they say unto every one that walketh  after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Whereas it says,

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Roman 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Giving us a contrast of those who work evil or good and what experiences could come of them. Peter speaks of seeing good days and says this

1 Peter 3:10-11 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile. Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

But between the pictures of the Ark and the Mount (as it relates to Uzza's hand or a beast being stoned through) I don't see how they connect into what the apostles are talking about here, or God's judging his people in these things though.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Anne2]

33 minutes ago, AFlameOfFire said:

I always wondered if Uzza's hand being reached out like that have something to do with, 

The stuff you bring, so good all those scriptures. I also found it harsh what happened there. God has his reasons to allow it to happen though. I think the issue with steadying the ark had to do with Uzza not being a son of Aaron??? Not sure though.

I think it concerns the men who rebelled against Moses and Aaron. Challenging them in their authority. They thought it a slight to them.

It is interesting the same notion you brought up about (despising)  It is not Moses nor Aaron, they murmured but the Lord. 

10  And he hath brought thee near to him, and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also?
11  For which cause both thou and all thy company are gathered together against the LORD: and what is Aaron, that ye murmur against him?
 

Only the sons of Aaron could minister or come near to the ark and mercy seat.

Nu 16:40  To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the LORD said to him by the hand of Moses.

50  But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.
51  And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Stranger here is a specific word. It means one alienated for a place or person.

Could be any Israelite estranged from the the tabernacle to minister (levites) in the holy place. And those estranged from the holy of holies  even Levites were estranged to that place. 

52  And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents, every man by his own camp, and every man by his own standard, throughout their hosts.
53  But the Levites shall pitch round about the tabernacle of testimony, that there be no wrath upon the congregation of the children of Israel: and the Levites shall keep the charge of the tabernacle of testimony.
 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

7 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

The stuff you bring, so good all those scriptures. I also found it harsh what happened there. God has his reasons to allow it to happen though. I think the issue with steadying the ark had to do with Uzza not being a son of Aaron??? Not sure though.

I think it concerns the men who rebelled against Moses and Aaron. Challenging them in their authority. They thought it a slight to them.

It is interesting the same notion you brought up about (despising)  It is not Moses nor Aaron, they murmured but the Lord. 

10  And he hath brought thee near to him, and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also?
11  For which cause both thou and all thy company are gathered together against the LORD: and what is Aaron, that ye murmur against him?
 

Only the sons of Aaron could minister or come near to the ark and mercy seat.

Nu 16:40  To be a memorial unto the children of Israel, that no stranger, which is not of the seed of Aaron, come near to offer incense before the LORD; that he be not as Korah, and as his company: as the LORD said to him by the hand of Moses.

50  But thou shalt appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of testimony, and over all the vessels thereof, and over all things that belong to it: they shall bear the tabernacle, and all the vessels thereof; and they shall minister unto it, and shall encamp round about the tabernacle.
51  And when the tabernacle setteth forward, the Levites shall take it down: and when the tabernacle is to be pitched, the Levites shall set it up: and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Stranger here is a specific word. It means one alienated for a place or person.

Could be any Israelite estranged from the the tabernacle to minister (levites) in the holy place. And those estranged from the holy of holies  even Levites were estranged to that place. 

52  And the children of Israel shall pitch their tents, every man by his own camp, and every man by his own standard, throughout their hosts.
53  But the Levites shall pitch round about the tabernacle of testimony, that there be no wrath upon the congregation of the children of Israel: and the Levites shall keep the charge of the tabernacle of testimony.
 

You could be right here Anne2 because I cannot say for certain myself, I will have to look into this some more to be sure.  So yeah, we have Uzza's hand and the steadying of the Ark, and the severe consequences shown us in doing that, just as we have what would happen to a beast if it touched the mount but you know, even Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu were also devoured by fire which come out from the LORD for offering a strange fire before him. 

Things had to be "just so" (so to speak) because it didn't take much for you to die before the LORD. 

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/17/2023 at 12:38 PM, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

I'm sure we will never come to agreement on this subject, and that's okay. We can simply let God be the judge. On a final note however I will say that I see no reason to believe that Paul was not talking literally about food. Almost every passage of scripture can be symbolized by somebody who wishes to reject a literal meaning for it. The first four verses of Romans 14 should clarify the subject very clearly. It is specifically saying that people can eat whatever they wish. In fact it's saying that those who believe that they can't eat certain things are actually weak in faith. It also says that you should not judge your brother for his freedom to eat, which is exactly the false judgment you have used against me. Again as you stated the food issue picks up again in verse 14 and continues. I see absolutely nothing in the text that would suggest that this is in any way symbolic. Quite the contrary in fact, as since kosher laws were no longer binding Paul wanted to make sure that the Jews who had followed kosher their whole lives understood quite clearly that they were now free to eat whatever they wished. Weaker believers would be stung in their conscience to eat anything that was not kosher, however mature believers were comfortable eating whatever they chose.

Romans 14 Ch is in no way saying a person can eat unclean food. Jesus say For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? (John 5:46-47) 

So, if you call yourself a New Testament Christian, and don't read and believe Moses' writings, how can you believe in Jesus?T his is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten. Leviticus 11:46-47 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Leviticus 11:44) 

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/14/2023 at 8:16 PM, Slibhin said:

Who cares! I'm not important, but I'm happy to correct you on the finer points of Kosher dining.

In the scriptures it's written in Proverbs 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge:

But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/16/2023 at 8:01 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

You do realize you are hard to discuss things with, you change course so fast, from meats, then into sabbaths and now offerings unto devils. Well, I am too long winded myself and the effort it takes me in some replies deprives me of having a real  life 

I'll tell you though Bro Tan , I am very curious about all the ordinances. The law of commandments contained in the ordinances that were abolished in his flesh, and the handwriting of the ordinances and/or all of the carnal ordinances which were imposed and are no more to be imposed in everything, I think that would be an interesting thing to look at, and prove out also. I think it would be helpful anyway, I have been looking at them and setting them aside to hopefully order up in some better understandable way as to why they (more specifically) are mentioned the way they are, things like that. Hopefully then we can have a better discussion and from a place of being better informed, they are always good for everyone.

 

Awesome, I really appreciate your understanding. Always remember this The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Understanding simple things opens the door to others

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:44 PM, AFlameOfFire said:

Have you guys factored in leap years, and things like and how many of those came and gone to land your own selves into that more correct 24 hour period of time?  Or do you observe the moons and things like that to correctly discern the correct days? Like how's that all work?

We use the moons in Jerusalem time. For example... The next illustration is of the calendar month March 2013; the month is set on Jerusalem Time. We will begin the year based on the new moon in Jerusalem and count the days leading to Passover and Unleavened Bread. 

Now let's start with the new moon which occurs on March 11, 2013, at 9:52pm Jerusalem time. Now because the sun has already gone down, we cannot begin the new month until the following day which would be

March 12 at sundown, because the New Moon must have a complete day. The first night of the New Year

Abib 1 begins at sundown March 12, and the day portion of Abib 1 begins March 13 at sunrise. Abib 2 begins

March 13 at sundown Abib 2 daytime begins March 14 at sunrise. Based on this sequence is the pattern of

counting days based on the new moon and sundown. Let’s continue the count to Passover night which comes

on March 25 The 13th day of Abib at sundown, and Unleavened Bread, March 26th the 14thday of Abib at

sundown.

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/16/2023 at 7:19 PM, Slibhin said:

Well if you think G-d spoke 15th century English to Moses and 15th century English translators knew Mishnaic Hebrew better then Jewish rabbis, I agree the conversation is complete.

In the scriptures it's written in Isaiah 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 for with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

I can see you really don't have a lot knowledge, understanding and wisdom in this matter, or even spiritual. I'm saying to say you should try learning first, but I know the mindset of roman Christianity and all the pagan holidays, etc, even going to church on the first day of the week (Sunday), that's not written in the Bible will strongly be upheld. But what written clean in the Bible will always be a problem. 

 

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

2 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

Awesome, I really appreciate your understanding. Always remember this The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Understanding simple things opens the door to others

I agree that the LORD changes not and that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, to day and forever, Amen Bro Tan

And I like the way that is put there in your post

For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed

And in reading Malachi 3 there speaks of the whole nation being under a curse for robbing God as far as his tithes are shown there and having gone away from his ordinances also.

Because it does say here in Hebrews

Hebrews 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

And of him who was made like unto the Son of God it says

Hebrews 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.

We know the LORD changes not, the priesthood is shown as being changed

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

And of course, we know this is speaking of Melchizedek who was made like unto the Son of God of which order God did call and glorify Jesus Christ to, his being made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek

Jesus does show that the Pharisees tithed all of their herbs here

Luke 11:32 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

And in this picture this guy here, he gives tithes of all he possesses here

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess

And it does say that men who die do receive these tithes

Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Where are these sons of Levi (on earth) who receive the office of this priesthood, which have this particular commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law?

And how does he (in heaven) receiveth "them"?  Is it receiveth "them" as persons? Such as I will receive you to myself, or receive tithes, as the tithes paid through Abraham (even as by Levi) who was stll in the loins of Abraham?

Just thinking out loud on that one really.

There was meat in His House as is shown here, none having need among them

Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by AFlameOfFire

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

2 hours ago, Bro.Tan said:

We use the moons in Jerusalem time. For example... The next illustration is of the calendar month March 2013; the month is set on Jerusalem Time. We will begin the year based on the new moon in Jerusalem and count the days leading to Passover and Unleavened Bread. 

Now let's start with the new moon which occurs on March 11, 2013, at 9:52pm Jerusalem time. Now because the sun has already gone down, we cannot begin the new month until the following day which would be

March 12 at sundown, because the New Moon must have a complete day. The first night of the New Year

Abib 1 begins at sundown March 12, and the day portion of Abib 1 begins March 13 at sunrise. Abib 2 begins

March 13 at sundown Abib 2 daytime begins March 14 at sunrise. Based on this sequence is the pattern of

counting days based on the new moon and sundown. Let’s continue the count to Passover night which comes

on March 25 The 13th day of Abib at sundown, and Unleavened Bread, March 26th the 14thday of Abib at

sundown.

So here is my question though, does that which count as your sabbath days always land on the Gregorian calendar day Saturday for example?  Given the leap years and all of that sort of thing? For example, if you say the day to rest is Saturday (not Sunday) for example, isn't that still within the whole Gregorian calendar days that were brought in around the 1500's? Or does that not effect where the first and seventh day lands within that same calendar used today? I mean how do we know the Wednesday isn't really the first day of the week but we count it according to the Gregorian calendar as mid week, see what I am asking? 

And if Abraham had two wives representing two covenants why would the one representing the Jerusalem that then was be the one cast out (which is the one which observed these things)?