Jesus And Other gods ! The Difference !

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Which is why all believers are to know and follow the Lord Jesus Christ.

I know. I just find that it's unfair to compare jesus with say, an Imam or even mohammed, because they are entirely differnt 'people'.

Why is it unfair? The rest of the world compares Jesus to peopple like Mohammed. They try to shove that down our throats all the time. They tell us that Jesus is just another founder of another religion. When we compare Jesus to Mohammed, it is to show Jesus' obvious superiority. Nothing unfair about it at all.

QUOTE

Our faith in Christ Jesus isn't faith in a mere human. There's no human being in the universe like the Lord Jesus Christ. He's unique in every way.

I seriously doubt His uniqueness.

He was unique on every point. Even our international calendars are set according to His life (BC & AD). He has a uniquely profound impact on the world that no one else in history ever has. If Jesus is not unique then why is it HIS words that everyone tries to refute? Why is it Jesus' existance that skeptics try to deny? No other religious figure is ever put under as much scrutiny as Jesus. The world, and the very way it treats Jesus and singles him out for special treatment in an attempt to discredit His claims demonstrates His uniqueness. He is treated in a very special and unique manner even by his enemies. Jesus is completely unique.

QUOTE

The only way to KNOW if He's the truth, the way and the life...is to honestly ASK Him...If You are Lord and God, PLEASE show me the truth!

I did ask.

Then you did not wait for the answer, or you chose to reject the answer you got. If you honestly seek Him, you will find Him.

QUOTE

Jesus is the only Person who came to save others .He came as the Savior of the world.Jesus came as a mediator between man and God- to reconcile the world to God the creator.

That's not really true. There are more Gods who saved others.

No other god EVER died for the ones they wanted to save.

[Guest The Chief]

Just a note...

The "gist" of the doctrine of every other major religion in the world seems to be "This is the truth, insofar as I (the founder) can perceive it; follow that." Jesus is the only One who has taken on the authority to unequivocably state "I am the Truth, follow Me!" Kinda separates Him (by a wide margin) from the "pack," doesn't it?

[Carter]

Please take a look at my testimony. I'm more of the analytical, philosophical type, so I approached this great quest from that angle. I'm not at all discounting the advice of the others, just offering another perspective.

I've taken a look at your testimony. Intresting read. Matter can not create itself. Agreed. So there must be a First Cause. Were did that come from? It has always been there. Something existing forever is just as unlogical as something coming from nothing.

And...We don't know about nothing. Big Bang theory seems to say that Nothing=>Something, but in fact it only says ???=>Something

Before a few seconds after the big bang we know of nothing. No facts about that time.

If people want to believe in God based on this, that's Ok for me. But inserting something somewere because you don't really know...

Also, I find the step: It has to be one God and not manny rather weird. Could you expand on that? What's wrong with two seperate Gods creating everything?

Why is it unfair? The rest of the world compares Jesus to peopple like Mohammed.

The bible says that Jesus said he was God. That's fundamentally differnt from what the Qu'ran says, namely that Muhammed had a revelation from God, presented to him by Gabri

[Guest shiloh357]

Why is it unfair? The rest of the world compares Jesus to peopple like Mohammed.

The bible says that Jesus said he was God. That's fundamentally differnt from what the Qu'ran says, namely that Muhammed had a revelation from God, presented to him by Gabri

[Carter]

You still have not demonstrated why it is "unfair" to compare Jesus to other religious figures like Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, etc.

It is fair to compare Him, but it is unfair to say he's right because He supposedly said things other's don't even try to claim.

There is nothing debatable about His impact. No one has had more impact on the world than Jesus. As I said, history is divided by His very existence. Our calendars reflect that division. The apostles could not have had the courage to continue their missionary journals had it not been Christ empowering them to do so. Not even the apostles converted THAT much of the known world. Paul only had three missionary journeys and then spent the rest of His life in prison until he was martyred.

History is not divided by his existance. Our western way of recording History is dived by his exitance in numbers only. 10 BC and 10 AD are not more differnt from each other then 1980 and 2000. In fact they were much more similiar. Chinese and Muslim Calendars are differnt from ours.

And also...When exactly was Jesus born? And when exactly did He die? We don't really know that. The division is based on a guess.

Jesus the Person is part of a set of people who made His religion possible. He He not been there, No Christianity. But No St. Paul/Constantine and I think there would still be none. But that's a guess.

Why would His power be needed to reach a lot of people? Why couldn't they go on without it?

Buddists do amazing tyhings for their religion...Why can they do it alone and the aposteles couldn't?

Christianity is both different AND unique. It has qualities in it that no other religion has. Other religions are about quests to find God, or the quest for truth. In Christianity, God came looking for man. We don't have to search for Truth. Truth came seeking us, say "where art thou?"

Christians can't find/seek Truth? Tell me...Why do you have a Bible? Why bother to read it?

In other religions, God has to be appeased through hard work, good deeds, self-abasement. In Christianity, it is God who abased Himself. He became one of us, in the person of Jesus Christ and willingly died upon the cross for our sins, thus appeasing Himself. In Christianity, we cannot earn God's favor. We cannot appease God, or satisfy His justice.

Willingly? He followed His Fathers will and that's stated. He didn't really like it Himself.

And christianity also has works. Faith without works is dead.

Other religions teach that man is basically good, and simply needs to be more self aware/realized in order to live out that "goodness." In Christianity, man is a sinner, a hopeless wretch in the eyes of God, in need of a Savior. In Christianity, we have nothing to be proud of before God, nothing to boast about, nothing good to our credit. We are incapable of saving ourselves or offering anything good to the Lord. We have to have a Savior, otherwise we abide under God's wrath.

That's one of my biggest problems. Also, it depends were the standard for Goodness is.

In other religions, they see each other as basically the same. They compromise by offering the notion that they are simply different roads that lead to the same destination. Jesus, however does not offer Himself as one of many ways to God, but as the ONLY way. That makes Him unique. Jesus refuses to stand in the same line as Mohammed, or Buddha. He demands to be seen as God, and as the only Savior and hope for mankind. He does not allow us to see Him merely as different. He does not offer Himself as a prophet or as just a different religious figure. He is claims are completely unique and require all men to make a decision about Him.

Islam also is the only way. And maybe that is true...That thinking initiated a lot of evil into the world.

I'll have to study a few things about His claims before I can fully answer.

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If matter exists, and it could not create itself, then it was caused by something else. The fact that matter is observed to always be "running down" is evidence that it has not always existed. But the First Cause is, by definition, uncaused, and therefore eternal. The reason we know something can't come from nothing is by observation, not logic. The reason we believe in a First Cause is by deduction.

Matter is not always running down. It can not be created nor destoyed. It can be converted into energy but nothing more.

But By observation, a First Cause also can not Come from nothing. It's an explanation for something we don't know.

Big Bang theory is being discredited by many scientists, and they are not creationists (see This Link). So it cannot be assumed or taken for granted. Science actually knows nothing at all about origins, since the origin of the universe was a single past event without human observation, and cannot be repeated in the laboratory. So "not knowing" and "blind faith" are the attributes of both sides of the coin.

Fully agreed. Exept that Scientists having problems with it doesn't mean it can't be assumed. There are always scientists having problems with something.

Order in the universe. Could 2 gods have cooperated to produce the single-minded design we observe? I suppose so, but we have no evidence of a multiplicity of sources.

No, but there's not evidence against it as well.

But what I was driving at is this: when we look at all the "gods" of all the religions, they have contradictory attributes, such that they cannot all be true. Only one of them can be the real God, otherwise he'd be a self-contradictory impossibility, as I tried to illustrate in my testimony.

No. It's very possible that the Real God, if He is there, is unknown. And varous Christian denominations disagree on things, some of wich have much impact on Who God is.

Even if it is the Christian God, than still it should be made clear wich version. Predestination or not? Works or Faith? What kind of Trinity? What kind of Wrath? Is Baptism needed or not? Hell or no Hell?

In any event, I'm simply relating my perspective, as are all other religions including atheism. The burning question is, how do we find the truth? The first thing each of us must do is define what it takes to prove something, or at least qualifiy it as highly likely. What is that for you? How would God "prove" Himself to you, without your writing it off as an illusion or something?

I agree tha Atheism is indeed a form of religion, altough it can be debated. Need a definition for religion first.

Some Prophecy fullfilled would make it true to me, or something that can't be an illusion. Something little, like writing readable for everybody, apearing out of nothingness. On a blackboard or something. Highly unlikely, but if it just apeared as with the second King of Babylon...Psychic Prayer would also do it for me. Somebody prays for an answer about me, something stupid and unknowable, like what kind of calendar is on my wall...I know that's tesing God, and it is not allowed but it would work.

[Carter]

I mentioned BB because you postulated it as a "beginning". But you do bring up an important point: that "science", for all its claims to the contrary, is not the final word about anything. So whenever you appeal to it, I am obligated to respond.

I know. I'm not a that big science fan. The subjects it deals with are intresting, but the method and kind of thinking behind it generates wrongs.

The laws of thermodynamics state that the universe is running down (which must include all matter) and will eventually reach the point of heat death. Running down down does not mean destroyed.

True. Sorry about my intial mistake.

I agree that the First Cause came from nothing. That's why it must be eternal. But it's at least as good "an explanation for something we don't know" as any other, and thus cannot simply be discounted.

Also True.

Which means you can't rule out that, at the very least, however many "gods" you decide upon, they must all have a singular set of attributes to have created a UNIverse.

Hmm...What about a compromise between them? Maybe they had massive debates for millions of years before they made a decision.

Agreed too.

Possible also that he is known. But who God is does not depend upon who people say he is; his reality cannot be dependent on our understanding. But if he is indeed the God of the Bible, he cannot be the god of any other religion by virtue of irreconcilable differences in attributes.

Or He changes. I know that stikes against Christianities teaching but maybe He's experimenting? Omnipotent but not omniscient?

While there are possibileties for you too be wrong, I think I still agree.

Again, people will disagree on many things, and this is true of every sphere of human thought. That the words of the Bible remain constant in spite of a multitude of fanciful interpretations give us more than mere opinion to go on, however. But in order for any group to call itself Christian, it must believe God's words. Faith is the make/break criterion for deciding a person's eternal destiny, whether in the OT or NT. This is quite clear.

Agreed.

What would you agree upon, without hedging later, that could not be written off as an illusion? After all, there is much fulfilled prophecy already, as can be seen at links on my web. Jesus even said, "If they won't believe Moses and the prophets, they won't even believe if someone rises from the dead". Jesus did rise from the dead, so why isn't that convincing? You doubt the event? Again, the evidence is presented at my web. A lot is gleaned from the research of Josh McDowell, who started out looking for the killing evidence against the resurrection. He was so overwhelmed by evidence to support it that he became a Christian. And he's not the only one that happened to. Something to consider.

I doubt the Event indeed and the truth of it. There are ways to apear dead and trick people.

I'll have to read trough your site again...

Aw, come on, cheap psychics and mediums can do that. But I would recommend taking the advice about at least keeping your eyes open, not with the attitude of demanding that God perform tricks for you, but with an honest seeking. Sometimes I think he takes his time just to test people's sincerety.

Mediums claim to do that...Maybe they are right But I found most mediums to be using obvious mind tricks. Still they can be right.

Well...I still have time.

[Guest shiloh357]

It is fair to compare Him, but it is unfair to say he's right because He supposedly said things other's don't even try to claim.

That is not the reason we place our faith in Him, necessarily.

Christianity is both different AND unique. It has qualities in it that no other religion has. Other religions are about quests to find God, or the quest for truth. In Christianity, God came looking for man. We don't have to search for Truth. Truth came seeking us, say "where art thou?"

Christians can't find/seek Truth? Tell me...Why do you have a Bible? Why bother to read it?

Because we are not trying to seek a truth that we do not know. We are not on a quest to discover truth. God not only made Himself known to men and even became a man, but has given us His Bible. We study the Bible not as a quest to seek truth, but to understand learn the Truth that has made itself know to us. That is the difference. Religion seeks for a "god" somewhere out there. In Christianity, God is the one who came to man. Every significant event in the Bible begins with God coming to man. God created Adam and walked with Adam, God came to Noah to build the Ark, God approached Abraham to created covenant, God came to Moses to be a deliverer, and so on. As you read throgh the Bible you do not find a God sitting aloof waiting for man to find Him. In every part of the Bible, you see God reaching out to man, culminating in sending of His Son Jesus to die for man. In the Bible you find God sparing no expense to bring man back into fellowship with Himself. This, you do not see in anywhere else.

In other religions, God has to be appeased through hard work, good deeds, self-abasement. In Christianity, it is God who abased Himself. He became one of us, in the person of Jesus Christ and willingly died upon the cross for our sins, thus appeasing Himself. In Christianity, we cannot earn God's favor. We cannot appease God, or satisfy His justice.

Willingly? He followed His Fathers will and that's stated. He didn't really like it Himself.

And christianity also has works. Faith without works is dead.

No, Jesus came to earth fully aware and willing to pay the price for man's sin. The Bible says in Hebrews 12:2 that for the joy set before him he endured the shame of the cross. In Luke Jesus said that he came to seek and to save that which was lost. It was his purpose. It was something that Jesus did out of love for us. He willingly gave His own life. It was not something He was forced to do. Jesus could have walked away from the cross anytime He chose, even He said that there were 12 legions of angels at his command ready to rescue Him.

As for works, yes we have works. But our "works" are not a means of appeasing God. The point has already been made that we cannot appease God. Our works are nothing to Him. The works we perform as Christians are not for appeasement but are rather the outworking of the Christian life. At least, they should be. We strive to do what is right because it is an act of loving gratitude to the Lord. It is the least we can do after Him sending His own Son to die on our behalf. We are not earning God's favor, we are living for Him in thanks and adoration for the favor He lovingly showers upon us even though we don't deserve it.

Other religions teach that man is basically good, and simply needs to be more self aware/realized in order to live out that "goodness." In Christianity, man is a sinner, a hopeless wretch in the eyes of God, in need of a Savior. In Christianity, we have nothing to be proud of before God, nothing to boast about, nothing good to our credit. We are incapable of saving ourselves or offering anything good to the Lord. We have to have a Savior, otherwise we abide under God's wrath.

That's one of my biggest problems. Also, it depends were the standard for Goodness is.

The standard of goodness for the Christian is the moral code contained in the Bible. The problem is that the standard is unreachable by human effort. That is what separates Christianity from everything else. Doing good to meet the standard is pointless because your best effort is still stained with your sin. It is like handing someone a Rolex watch that is coated with tar, mud, dung, bacteria and blood.

In other religions, they see each other as basically the same. They compromise by offering the notion that they are simply different roads that lead to the same destination. Jesus, however does not offer Himself as one of many ways to God, but as the ONLY way. That makes Him unique. Jesus refuses to stand in the same line as Mohammed, or Buddha. He demands to be seen as God, and as the only Savior and hope for mankind. He does not allow us to see Him merely as different. He does not offer Himself as a prophet or as just a different religious figure. He is claims are completely unique and require all men to make a decision about Him.

Islam also is the only way. And maybe that is true...That thinking initiated a lot of evil into the world.

I'll have to study a few things about His claims before I can fully answer.

Well there is a difference. Islam claims to be the only way. Christianity does not. Rather we claim that JESUS is the only way. We do not claim that our religion will take you to heaven. One can go to church, tithe, be baptized, sing in the choir, teach a class, pray before every meal, celebrate every Christian holiday, and still go to hell. The Christian religion cannot save anyone. While Islam claims that their religion will save them, Christians make no such claim about our faith. Again, our "religion" is an out working of a living faith in the God of Scripture. Jesus claims that HE is the only way to the Father (John 14:6)

[Guest MrMichael]

Hello, I have read the above topic and title, and upon first glance and thinking a great deal about it, I found the difference is that jesus is faithful to his word and his actions follow that which he professes, where as other men or objects which men profess to be Gods, do not have this truth.

Mankind will do all he or she can to make anything into a God in order not to follow the one true God, whether another man or a golden calf, never the less, the false shall parish and the one true God with life eternal life and those who follow the truth.

Edited December 21, 2005 by MrMichael

[Carter]

Because we are not trying to seek a truth that we do not know. We are not on a quest to discover truth. God not only made Himself known to men and even became a man, but has given us His Bible. We study the Bible not as a quest to seek truth, but to understand learn the Truth that has made itself know to us. That is the difference. Religion seeks for a "god" somewhere out there. In Christianity, God is the one who came to man. Every significant event in the Bible begins with God coming to man. God created Adam and walked with Adam, God came to Noah to build the Ark, God approached Abraham to created covenant, God came to Moses to be a deliverer, and so on. As you read throgh the Bible you do not find a God sitting aloof waiting for man to find Him. In every part of the Bible, you see God reaching out to man, culminating in sending of His Son Jesus to die for man. In the Bible you find God sparing no expense to bring man back into fellowship with Himself. This, you do not see in anywhere else.

So the Bible is there to under the Truth you already know? That seems completely contradictory to me.

I've see you do not make the Relationship point, but you do want to seperate Christianity from the wrd religion. Unfortunatly, it is one. Believing is Jesus, the only real requirement, is still following a religion. Take a look at the dictionary if you don't believe me.

On a side note, I feel that you are better at apologetics then most other online Christians I've debated.

Now...Prometheus, a Titan/God was a God person who really helped men acording to the Myths. He gave them fire, a cheated Zues to help them. And He suffered a painfull torture. No real savior like Jesus, but He did aproach men.

Azetc Gods all Sacrifised themselves to keep the Sun going... And they wanted to do that to help men.

There are more example. None of them paralel to Christianity, but none paralel to themselves too.

And...Not only does God try to help men, but He also curses them. Blesses and curses...But that's a different point.

The standard of goodness for the Christian is the moral code contained in the Bible. The problem is that the standard is unreachable by human effort. That is what separates Christianity from everything else. Doing good to meet the standard is pointless because your best effort is still stained with your sin. It is like handing someone a Rolex watch that is coated with tar, mud, dung, bacteria and blood.

God set the standard. He could have changed it and not had to bother with anything.

Well there is a difference. Islam claims to be the only way. Christianity does not. Rather we claim that JESUS is the only way. We do not claim that our religion will take you to heaven. One can go to church, tithe, be baptized, sing in the choir, teach a class, pray before every meal, celebrate every Christian holiday, and still go to hell. The Christian religion cannot save anyone. While Islam claims that their religion will save them, Christians make no such claim about our faith. Again, our "religion" is an out working of a living faith in the God of Scripture. Jesus claims that HE is the only way to the Father (John 14:6

Jesus and Christianity are almost the same. You can believe Jesus without being a Christian. And that doesn't have to include church fellowship.

Islam does not clam their religion will save them. Bad Muslims go to hell, with is much more fair than sending don't care people to hell and repenting child molesters to heaven. IMO of course.

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE

Because we are not trying to seek a truth that we do not know. We are not on a quest to discover truth. God not only made Himself known to men and even became a man, but has given us His Bible. We study the Bible not as a quest to seek truth, but to understand learn the Truth that has made itself know to us. That is the difference. Religion seeks for a "god" somewhere out there. In Christianity, God is the one who came to man. Every significant event in the Bible begins with God coming to man. God created Adam and walked with Adam, God came to Noah to build the Ark, God approached Abraham to created covenant, God came to Moses to be a deliverer, and so on. As you read throgh the Bible you do not find a God sitting aloof waiting for man to find Him. In every part of the Bible, you see God reaching out to man, culminating in sending of His Son Jesus to die for man. In the Bible you find God sparing no expense to bring man back into fellowship with Himself. This, you do not see in anywhere else.

So the Bible is there to under the Truth you already know? That seems completely contradictory to me.

No, I said that that we don't have to SEEK a truth we don't know. Truth by its nature, does not hide in dark corners. Truth is not elusive, and does not have to be sought. God by His Nature does not try to avoid contact with mankind. He is actively reaching out. God wants to be known. God loves us and wants to be loved, as well.

I've see you do not make the Relationship point, but you do want to seperate Christianity from the wrd religion. Unfortunatly, it is one. Believing is Jesus, the only real requirement, is still following a religion. Take a look at the dictionary if you don't believe me.

You do have a point. From a secular definition of religion it can be said that Christianity is one of the great world religions. But it is way more than that. Christianity is primarily a relationship with God by virtue of our union with Him in Christ. In that aspect it is entirely unique from other religions. A relationship with God trascends mere religion. It is more fulfilling than "religion" could ever be.

Now...Prometheus, a Titan/God was a God person who really helped men acording to the Myths. He gave them fire, a cheated Zues to help them. And He suffered a painfull torture. No real savior like Jesus, but He did aproach men.

Azetc Gods all Sacrifised themselves to keep the Sun going... And they wanted to do that to help men.

There are more example. None of them paralel to Christianity, but none paralel to themselves too.

And...Not only does God try to help men, but He also curses them. Blesses and curses...But that's a different point.

Yes, but there are stark differences between Christianity and extinct mythological gods. In Scripture God created the Earth for man. The entire process of creation was really for man's benefit. Mankind was the "main idea" if you will, when God was creating the world. Many Christians believe that the earth was to be a reflection of heaven. God created the best for man. Unlike the story of Prometheus, mankind was created by God out of love. The Bible tells us that Adam and God walked together in the Garden of Eden in the cool evening, enjoying sweet fellowship together. All of the Scripture is primarily about God affecting the redemption of man after Adam caused the fall of mankind in the Garden of Eden.

Another difference to note is that the God of Scripture is not only concerned with saving mankind, but He also takes a personal interest in each of us as individuals. Salvation, in the Bible is more personal and individual than it is in other religions. For example, Judaism has no concept of individual redemption. In that religion, redemption is entirely corporate. In Christianity, salvation is about God reaching down into the lives of each person. God is intensely concerned with our personal lives, our hurts, as well as our joys. No other religion really has that concept. No other religion is based upon a personal, individual, loving, redemptive relationship with their deity/deities.

QUOTE

The standard of goodness for the Christian is the moral code contained in the Bible. The problem is that the standard is unreachable by human effort. That is what separates Christianity from everything else. Doing good to meet the standard is pointless because your best effort is still stained with your sin. It is like handing someone a Rolex watch that is coated with tar, mud, dung, bacteria and blood.

God set the standard. He could have changed it and not had to bother with anything.

Not so. God's moral standard is revelation of Himself. God could not change His standard without changing who He is. Since there is no one higher than He, the only way He could change His standard was to lower it. God's standard will never change, because He never changes. God has only one standard, and as I said, man cannot reach it. Man cannot be good enough on his own to satisfy God. That is why He sent Jesus. Jesus was the only one who has ever lived up to God's standards. He fulfilled the righteousness of God's law, and now God is willing to accept us on the basis of what Christ did. If we are willing to put our faith in Jesus, the righteousness of God's Law will be fulfilled in us, and His righteouness is imputed to because of our faith in Christ and His finished work on the cross.

QUOTE

Well there is a difference. Islam claims to be the only way. Christianity does not. Rather we claim that JESUS is the only way. We do not claim that our religion will take you to heaven. One can go to church, tithe, be baptized, sing in the choir, teach a class, pray before every meal, celebrate every Christian holiday, and still go to hell. The Christian religion cannot save anyone. While Islam claims that their religion will save them, Christians make no such claim about our faith. Again, our "religion" is an out working of a living faith in the God of Scripture. Jesus claims that HE is the only way to the Father (John 14:6

Jesus and Christianity are almost the same. You can believe Jesus without being a Christian. And that doesn't have to include church fellowship.

No you cannot believe Jesus without being a Christian. The mark of a Christian is that they believe Jesus. Now, you can believe IN Jesus as a historical person without being a Christian, but if a person believes Jesus, that means they accept His claims about Himself, and His teachings about how much God loves us. That would mean they would accept Him as Savior and Lord and by definition, they would be Christians. That is not the same as simply following the rigmarole of the Christian "religion."

Islam does not clam their religion will save them. Bad Muslims go to hell, with is much more fair than sending don't care people to hell and repenting child molesters to heaven. IMO of course.

No it is not more fair. In Christianity no one goes to hell because of what they do. It is what you are that sends you to hell. We are all born into sin, and are by nature sinners. By virtue of that, all of us deserve hell even if we are the most upstanding citizens and the most kind and generous people in the world. All men stand on equal ground before the Lord. All of us from the most generous to the most vile of sinners stand equally sinful before God. There is only ONE way to heaven for everyone, and that is through Jesus Christ.