Ovedya Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Since we are in "Apologetics" here, let's discuss the actual verse, shall we? 2 Cor. 3:17 (a couple of translations): "Now the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." (KJV) "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom." (RSV) One version says, "that Spirit..." and the other says, "the Spirit..." The obvious question from reading this verse is, "What Spirit is this verse talking about?" It is interesting to note that in this chapter of 2 Corinthians, spirit is used in verses 3, 6, 17, and 18. But only in verses 3, 17, and 18 is "Spirit" capitalized. Commonly, the word "Spirit" is capitalized in the English versions in order to distinguish between a spirit or the human spirit, and the Holy Spirit. Wherever the Holy Spirit is mentioned, the word is capitalized. So we are left with somewhat of a connundrum here. 2 Cor. 3:17 says clearly that the Lord is the Spirit, and it also says, "The Spirit of the Lord..." So the question is whether the Lord is the Spirit, or if the Spirit of the Lord is the Spirit. There cannot be two Holy Spirits, and yet we know that Christ and the Spirit are two distinct Persons within the Godhead. So how can we reconcile these things clearly? It is my argument that we cannot reconcile them completely, but that because this is the Bible, because it is God's Word, we must simply believe what it says. ...Then there is 1 Cor. 15:45 which we also have to reconcile, but we'll wait for that one later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2003 Corinthians 3:17 (NASB) " Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." Well, the NASB is the same as the KJV. I believe it is capitalized because this is referring to Jesus. If anything refers to Jesus, it should be capitalized, for it is out of respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Troy Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 warped, i want you to know I can see your underhanded play of the two spirit defense to justify big S in 1 Cor. 15.45 when 2 Cor. 3.17 is not even in question. it never ends. you don't see the flaw in 2 spirit defense from the Mr. Fee article produced by LSM. Now all you do is reiterate their LSM mantra. Crazy crazy stuff!!!!!!!!!! 1 Cor. 15.45 is small s comparing spiritual to physical, that is all. This is not to say Jesus is not a life-giving Spirit also. "the" or "that" is immaterial, for the focus is on "NOW". You can't see, it is so clear, your whole reality is Leeist. I can see it. It is wider than a grand canyon in its obviousness. The 2 spirit defense is the lamest argument when you can see where it comes from its origination, in a couple of Lee's writings and LSM defenses based on false Mr. Fee's claims. Hello mcflyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hello hello, Is there anyone in there!!!!!!!!!!! Wake up!!! Leeist spirit, come out of this man, you have no right in Acacia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2003 John 10:30 "I and My Father are one." This verse shows that Jesus and God are one, but are two persons. I'm trying to look for another verse which shows that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three persons, but are one. Verses anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 25, 2003 John 14:7-11 - "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2003 Great verses Neb! :t3: :t3: I also think this verse shows that Jesus and God are one. Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto Me of My Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Troy Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Silly men, why state the obvious, when the issue is... God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit are not the same Person. Godhead is G the F, G the S, G the S. Godhead is not a person, nor is the totality of G the F, G the S, G the S a person. Wake up! p.s. this is oneness belief and a leeist belief. reject it in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Praise the Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader4Christ Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 72 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2003 Anymore verses anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Troy Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 25, 2003 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 532 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/03/2001 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/25/1972 Share Posted July 25, 2003 zombie Such maturity. I always thought name calling was an intelligent retort to what anyone offered in a debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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