BlindSeeker Posted January 22, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2006 If I am mistaken in intrpreting your words here, then please explain what you mean by Angels being created "higher" than man, what you mean by God "justified himself" after some of them fell and why he chose to do it by "creating man lower than angels". Also your scriptural basis for your reasons in saying this Perhaps I'm the only one, but it did sound an awful lot to me as though you were implying that God created the angels, some of whom messed up, so God created man lower than the angels so that when man also fell, God would somehow be justified. If you truly care to understand my position then read the OP on this thread "Justified in the Spirit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 (edited) I tried reading it and I nearly fell asleep. I'm still none the wiser. The most perceptive thing you said was this: just because something is a mystery does not make it impossible. A mystery is simply proof of ignorance, a lack of knowledge and understanding. You should think on the trinity of Yahweh with this wisdom. I noticed you also touched on God justifying himself, but the simple truth is that God has no need to justify himself, being the creator God he is Just and Holy and Righteous and true, subordinate to none and sovereign over all: Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? God has declared that his will is sovereign and that he has no need to be justified. Now perhaps you could be gracious enough to answer my proposal without the need for reading an essay that took several months to write. The suggestion was, after all, to be clear and concise on your standpoint, not immesurably laced with jargon. Edited January 22, 2006 by NewPilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unico Posted January 23, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 27 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) Basically, after I read the "notions" somebody here has imposed regarding the "image" of God, nobody... still doesn't know what is this "image" that man was created of. As what I've said.. the Bible has the answer: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. Genesis 1:26 King James Version That's one. What else? and put on the new nature, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness. Ephesians 4:24 Revised Standard Version Obviously, the Bible pointed out THREE. Namely: Created with Power ... in True Righteousness ... and in Holiness And that's the Scriptural "likeness/image of God". About Genesis 1:26, next post. I just wonder why would people [especially Trinitarians] limit the use of the pronouns "US" and "OUR" in the verse into THREE persons? Pronouns "US", "OUR", and "WE" indeed impose plurality - meaning, more than one - so why limit it into three? If God is only one, why did He used plural pronouns when He said "Let US make man according to OUR image"? And why would King Charles use plural pronouns everytime He proclaim "We, King Charles..."? There must be a reason. Native Hebrews [the Patriarchs, the Prophets, and the first nation of God] knows the best answer. See you next time. Edited January 23, 2006 by Unico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted January 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.20 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2006 Hebrew people knows the best answer. I am Hebrew and I already gave you the reason He says "us" and wha t"likeness" is. My grandfather, who spoke Hebrew better than English, came to the saving knowledge of Christ via Genesis and the plurality. Are you telling me he didn't understand what it meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 23, 2006 The three persons of God shown at Christ's baptism: When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened That's Jesus and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. That's the Holy Spirit And a voice came from heaven: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2006 Blindseeker, it is hard to pay attention to "exactly" what you are saying when your expressions are not exact and when you have seemingly tried to put forward your point using a topic which you revoked yourself as being irrelevant to the OP. So perhaps for the benefit of us all, you could re-itterate in simple and accurate language exactly what point you are trying to make? Ro 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. God created Adam and Eve with a free will and sense which allowed them to be subjected to temptation. God knew that Adam and Eve would fall into temptation, but He also purposed from before the Creation that He would also give them hope via His Word that they would learn toi cast all their care upon Him . . . willingly. The angels already had gone through the same violence of sin in the heavens with Lucifer wanting to exalt his throne to a place of equality with God because he was seduced by his own beauty and brightness and felt he therefore deserved to be worship as God. God therefore to prove Himself worthy of all glory, honor and power as well as just and righteous in His pronounced judgment against Lucifer purposed that He would vindicate Himself against the lies and accusations of the adversary in a way that is said to be a mystery hid from the foundation of the world. Ro 16:25 Now to Him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began God descended and clothed Himself with human frailty and became Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 But before that, I just want to ask some idea from you on how you understand the expression "image of God"? Why do we believe we are created in "God's likeness"? What is this "image" that we have as God's creations? There are no other beings on earth that possess reasoning skills on an abstract level. Mankind is capable of making moral choices. We are able to form written and audible language. No other creature can do that. We have (on a lesser level than God) creative skills. We are able to take matter and use it from and in a sense "create." No other creature has that attribute. We are able to fellowship and commune with God in a way that no other creature can. We were created for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2006 I tried reading it and I nearly fell asleep. I'm still none the wiser. Too bad. Now perhaps you could be gracious enough to answer my proposal without the need for reading an essay that took several months to write. The suggestion was, after all, to be clear and concise on your standpoint, not immesurably laced with jargon. Another jab . . . oh well. Nonetheless for clarification, it only took 3-4 nights to write and has been reproduced many times by different people because of its clarity for redistribution. Still, you ask for an explanation, there it is. If you cannot read it then perhaps the issue lies with you, not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted January 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted January 23, 2006 *sigh* from the Trinity to Imago Dei...maybe we'd better start another thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 23, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2006 But before that, I just want to ask some idea from you on how you understand the expression "image of God"? Why do we believe we are created in "God's likeness"? What is this "image" that we have as God's creations? There are no other beings on earth that possess reasoning skills on an abstract level. Mankind is capable of making moral choices. We are able to form written and audible language. No other creature can do that. We have (on a lesser level than God) creative skills. We are able to take matter and use it from and in a sense "create." No other creature has that attribute. We are able to fellowship and commune with God in a way that no other creature can. We were created for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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