BlindSeeker Posted January 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) I thought it would be helpful to some other readers to provide a few links regarding the Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziel, the following is where there is an actual english translation of The Aramaic Targum of Jonathan Ben Uzziel on the Pentateuch The other link is The Non-official Targums--Jonathan ben Uzziel and the Pentateuch which is (4) under 6. Characteristics of the Different Targums. "The Targum to the Prophets (priores, historical books; posteriores, the actual Prophets) now in existence is ascribed to Jonathan ben Uzziel, who is said on the authority of the Babylonian "Megillah", 3a, to have formulated it orally, in accordance with the instructions of Haggai, Zachariah, and Malachi . . . " New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia Edited January 27, 2006 by BlindSeeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 26, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 26, 2006 Did you read to the end of chapter 2? I suggest you read the first 2 chapters, in one sitting, quietly, on your own, without the noise of scholars. I sorry you feel it as necessary as to instruct me in how to do my devotions or studies. Regarding your question, yes, and it is clear that "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same." There is no hint or indication whatsoever that Jesus was spiritually restricted to fallen man's spiritual limitations. If you are trying to imply that verse 17 where it says "Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren . . ." is your source of confirmation including spiritual limitations, then "all things" (according to such an implication) must also include fallen man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 (edited) I have no idea I sorry you feel it as necessary as to instruct me in how to do my devotions or studies. It saddens me too. Edited January 26, 2006 by NewPilgrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 27, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 27, 2006 I have no idea I believe you, though I am amazed that you felt a smiley face was appropriate for such a sad declaration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Because my faith enables me to live contently without knowing everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted January 27, 2006 Share Posted January 27, 2006 Hebrews Chapter one. This chapter addresses the exalted name of Yeshua and indicates his restoration to sovereignty. Note verse 4: having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. This statement follows a proclamation of his sacrificial works as a man. The following passage which quotes from the OT shows the honour and glory of Yeshua as Gods son. Worship, it is worth noting, is an accolade of greatness, not necessarily of authority. Verse 14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation? This verse shows the role of angels towards the body of Christ. To serve. Again this is not indicative of the authorative roles, as one with authority may use it to serve others (Yeshua to the church/Husband to his wife) and likewise, one under authority may be called to serve the higher authority through subordination (soldier, slave, butler) A very simplified example of command through lesser authority A lower rank in the army (eg infantry corpral) may command a deployment of troops in higher authority (eg bomber pilot/captain), by request through the head authority (perhaps a general), thus differeing ranks are able to work in unison to achieve a mutual goal, each in various suboridant positions relative to one another, yet also in command of one another through their head authority figure. Angels are appointed to serve the children of God with their position of authority and are, through the Father's authority, at our command through prayer. Chapter 2 This chapter addresses further the issue of how this authority works. As blindseekers learned friend point out, the Jews held Angels in very high regard and yet the author prompts them not to let the Angels' notereity disuade them from their own importance and promised glory, and a restoration to dominion as it was with Adam. 5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak [the Kingdom of Heaven-1:8], in subjection to angels. 6 But one testified in a certain place, saying: "What is man that You are mindful of him, Or the son of man that You take care of him? 7 You have made him a little lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands. 8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet This passage and the following show the direct Parallel between Man in his original state (thanks to blindseeker for putting me straight on that one. It's really opened up my understanding ), the limitations brought upon him, and his restoration to dominion and Yeshuas own role as Saviour. v6 is both descriptive of mankind and points to ("Son of Man" - a prophetic title also) Yeshua. v7-8 describe, the dominion, limitation and restoration of both. The second half of v8 reminds us of Mans original dominion and also his reduction in authority. v9 is the comparison to Yeshua also made lower than angels (note the repetition of v7 to draw your attention) v10-18 elaborates further on the premise of Yeshua taking on the yolk of men. Being born a man, living among men in the same earthly domain with the same surroundings and influences and with the same limitations, physical and spiritual as a man. (thinking back to blindseekers earlier question "Did Yeshua have the sinful nature". Is it heretical to suggest that Yeshua was born into the same aptitude toward sin as all men? I'm beginning to wonder if it isnt, but rather that the suggestion that he would have succumbed to it would be blasphemous. After all, is there any logic in temptation if there is not a potential to succumb? - feedback would be appreciated on this one)[/] 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. The preceeding verses 15-16 explain to us that man is in bondage to death and it is the work of Yeshua to free us from this bondage, which keeps us "a little lower than the angels" and with the restoration of dominion in mind he notes that Yeshua comes to aid the seed of Abraham, rather than angels. Or in simplified terms mankind, in the eternal picture, is of more importance and greater glory than angels, to which end he has bought with his blood the promise of salvation for mankind. Chapters 3-10 go on then to explain the nature and wonder of salvation, the New Covenant, our new High Priest, the meaning of one everlasting sacrifice, the security of our salvation, the pitfalls of superficial fellowship and the importance and development of our attitude toward our salvation through faith. I have explored these chapters and issues in this post in a little more detail in should anyone wish to read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 29, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 29, 2006 (edited) Hebrews Chapter one. This chapter addresses the exalted name of Yeshua and indicates his restoration to sovereignty. Note verse 4: having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. This statement follows a proclamation of his sacrificial works as a man. The following passage which quotes from the OT shows the honour and glory of Yeshua as Gods son. Worship, it is worth noting, is an accolade of greatness, not necessarily of authority. Two points here I feel would be profitable to address. 1. Inheritance Edited January 29, 2006 by BlindSeeker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NewPilgrim Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 A good study seeker, yet with the exception of the question regarding sin nature, I don't see how it refutes the rest of my own study. God in his eternity is outside of our limitations of time, yet Yeshua was made subject to that limitation. Therefore from the perspective of "our place within time" Yeshua, having all power and authority in eternity emptied himself of it by his entering linear time and upon leaving linear time and ascending to the kingdom of heaven was once again restored to his rightful place in eternity. In much a similar vein, man at his creation was formed in dominion and authority and was made empty, through disgrace rather than righteousness. The scripture teaches us that we will once again be the heirs of creation with dominion and authority, restored to our rightful place alongside our saviour. Perhaps I am ignorant, but I dont see how any amount of analisys of titles has bearing on such a simple premise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2006 A good study seeker, yet with the exception of the question regarding sin nature, I don't see how it refutes the rest of my own study. . . I welcome your acknowledgement of it as a good study; I would assume that means you agree with it. Concerning me refuting you on your previous post, I wasn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted January 30, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,076 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2006 After some reflection I thought I would resubmit the following with comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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