The Law, Sin, the Commandments and serving Christ.

[CarolineS]

Smalcald,

Praise God for a very honest and sincere question. I see that you really want to serve and please God, and I beileve the Spirit has really already shown you the answer to the question.

Many true things have been said here, but sometimes the understanding needs to be clarified. The Ten Commandments were given to identify sin, or transgression against God. They were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant over which the presence of God dwelt. This should tell you something about how God regards them. Also in the Ark were Aaron's rod that budded and the golden pot of manna that was miraculously preserved. From the mercy seat God forgave the sins of the people when they confessed them and killed the lamb representing Jesus.

Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein [was] the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant (Ten Commandments);

9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

What was in the Ark was the essence of God's kingdom. The 'Tables of Testimony' represented God's justice or His definition of sin. Aaron's rod that budded shows the love God who gives life to those who are 'dead in tresspasses and sin. The Manna is representative of Jesus 'who is the bread of life' come down from heaven and who dwells in the believer through faith. From the 'mercy' seat above the Ark God forgave the transgression of His law when repentant sinners confessed their sins and killed the lamb, symbolic that their sins had been transfered to Jesus and He would die for those sins.

As long as the world remains, the Ten Commandments remain inorder to identify sin. How else could on know they were a sinner and repent if they had no way of knowing what sin is. In order to be forgiven one must know what sin is so he can confess it and be forgiven. If he doesn't know, then he can't confess. If he can't confess, he cannot be forgiven. Beyond this he is to give up sin and come into obedience.

The Ten Commandments were given by Jesus who is the WORD OF GOD, who is God. Anything done by God is done by all three persons of the Godhead. Jesus was above the mercy seat along with God the Father and the Holy Spirit. The Ten Commandments are the Commandments of Jesus just as all His words on earth were His commands.

One has said that God gave the commandments knowing that we couldn't keep them. True, he knew we couldn't keep then in our carnal nature. This is the reason that He gives us His Holy Spirit, to enable us to keep them. You see in the 'New Covenant', the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in the heart of the believer and as the Scriptures say, 'He writes the law of God in the heart' or gives the believer a love for His law.

Here is God's definition of the New Covenant, this is Salvation by grace through faith:

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put MY LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

You see the New Covenant does not do away with the law, it just changes where the Law is written. In the old Covenant the law was written on stone, in the New Covenant the law is written in the believers heart so that he will love the Law of God.

God bless,

Dennis

Amen. I couldn't have said it better myself.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Arthur Durnan]

And, of course, why would I travel back to Exodus Chapter 20 and its ten commandments given directly & explicitly to the literal nation of Israel when I can see & understand what God desires of me in the New Testament where NINE of the ten commandments given in context to the literal nation of Israel in Exodus are REPEATED re the Church of Jesus Christ - all, that is, EXCEPT the Jewish Seven-day Sabbath-keeping command? I well realize throughout all of Paul's letters what God hates and what He desires of me. Why send me back to Moses? I would much rather "Stand fast in the liberty......." with the Apostle, wouldn't you? Or would you rather return to the Judaic Code with its national rituals and punishments?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Pilgrim7]

Lawyer for God,

Good defense. God does not change. He is the same now as then. His will has always been the same since Creation. His will is the law for man for all time. His will was transgressed in the garden and since then we have carnal men trying to somehow skirt His will.

Sin is the transgression of His will. When Cain killed Able, he violated the will of God. That was sin and he was cursed for it. In the Old Covenant, God wrote His will about sin on Tables of Stone and called it His law. This was nothing new, but just an enumeration of the main violations of His will. The wages of transgression of His will, written in the Ten Commandments, was death.

In the new Covenant, God's will or law is written in the heart of the Believer's heart so He will love to do God's will. As you have quoted that David delighted in the law or will of God as do those who are partakers of the 'New Covenant'.

When God writes His law in the heart of the Beleiver, He does it in the positive, 'Thou shalt', instead of the negative 'thou shalt not'. He writes 'Thou shalt love me with all your heart, mind, soul and strength' and 'your neighbor as yourself' and in doing so you will not violate the 'Thou shalt nots' in the Ten Commandments. As professied by Isaiah, instead of doing away with the law, Jesus 'magnifies the law and makes it honorable' by writing it in the heart of his Children in its expanded form.

As you point out, God has not changed a 'jot or tittle', but has expanded and shed His love, His will and law abroad in our hearts,in its magnified form, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in and leads into all holiness ,righteousness and truth, those who hear his voice and follow him.

God bless you

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

God didn't change anything. The Livitical priesthood was always just a shadow or a type of the real priesthood of Jesus. It was a teaching tool to prepare the Israelites for the Real High Priest when He came. Obviously when the real Priest comes and becomes the sacrifice, the Shadows or teaching tools are discarded. Jesus has always been the High Priest. When the fullness of time came, He came to this earth to carry out the Sacrifice and thus the system of teaching was no longer required. The fullnesss had come.

The bondage that Jesus sets us free from is sin and it condemnation, or transgression of the Law of God. Obedience to God is not a bondage, but a liberation from sin and death. Thus the Lawyer's case stands, God is vindicated, His law is Holy just and good as the Scriptures say.

God bless,

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

This was a pre-planned change, part of the will of God and not a change of mind. The priesthood was to last only until Jesus, priest, prohpet and king, came to set the captives of sin free and bring the New Covenant that would write the Moral Law, or will of God, in the hearts of all believers. All laws relating to the priesthood and sacrificial system were Schoolmasters to prepare the poeple for the coming of Christ. The people were to recognize in Him the fulfillment of the priesthood and the Sacrificial system. The 'Lamb of God' has been slain, the wages for sin have been paid.

But your right, this is the only change in the law, although planned from the beginning, mentioned in Scripture. The Moral law which identifies sin and condemns to death those who transgress remains until Judgment Day by which God will judge the world.

Paul knew this:

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts (the New Covenant experience), their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Paul's oppinion of the Law:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Paul upholds the Law as did Jesus:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

As one anti-nomialist told me, it was too bad that Paul said these things.

Now if Paul and Jesus both uphold the Law and say it will not perish but will be used to judge both Gentiles and Jews, who is it that Scripture prophesies will 'think to change times and laws'? Sounds like the 'Man of sin' to me.

God rests His case,

Dennis

[John3;16]

Pilgrim7

Pilgrim7

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put MY LAWS into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11

And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

You see the New Covenant does not do away with the law, it just changes where the Law is written. In the old Covenant the law was written on stone, in the New Covenant the law is written in the believers heart so that he will love the Law of God.

This is prophesy of when the Lord returns during the millennium when Christ will reign with a rod of iron, this has nothing to do with the church or the era that we are in. The Ten Commandments are there to reveal are sins and so that we can come to the throne of God to ask for forgiveness.

In Romans chapter four, the Apostle Paul through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit uses an example of Abraham as being the Father of faith, this was before the law existed, and in the example Abraham receives the promise through faith, and he is declared just because of his faith, and also in chapter four it uses this comparison to those who receive justification through faith, which is the era that we are in, which is also referred to as the church age, the book of Acts gives detailed information of the beginning of the church and some of its formative years, and along with the Epistles we can come to a good understanding of justification through faith and not through the Law, as we can see Abraham did not have ceremonial law, ritual law or the ten commandments, so to try and make the argument that we are to be placed under the ten commandments has no scriptural support, we receive it by faith just as Abraham received it by faith. He lived four hundred plus years before the Law was given to Moses and we are after the law was fulfilled, but both are justified without the law. The Gospels cover the era before the church began, and most of it is before the cross so you need to be careful when applying some of its teachings.

Romans|4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.

Romans|4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which

[Pilgrim7]

Horizon east,

It is for sure that someone is confused. The law concerning the priesthood was fulfilled by Jesus. There was now no need for a priest after the order of Aaron. It was the transfer of the priesthood from the Aarononic to Jesus. That is not God changing His mind or his plan, but carrying out His plan. Yes it is a change for men, but not for God, not in the way you put it.

I am not an SDA, and I don't follow Ellen White. I have quoted the words of Paul and Jesus. The keeping of the law does not save, for it condemns. It can't forgive, and it can't beget in us new life. This is done by grace through faith. Yet the saved man, with Jesus dwelling within is obedient to God. The 'true Christian', with the law written in His heart, who loves God with all His heart, mind, soul and strength, loves to obey Him. This is what righteousness is all about, man restored in the image of God, rendering obedience to God.

The only thing nailed to the Cross was Jesus who 'became sin for us'. Thus sin was nailed to the cross. The Sacrifice was nailed to the cross. The High priest was nailed to the cross. The hand writting of ordinances that were against us were our tranggressions which were written in the Books. They were nailed with Jesus to the cross when we are cucified with Christ.

You see the whole problem of sin originated with disobedience to God in the Garden. Jesus saves people from sin and brings them back to obedience to God. What confusion, believing that God wants His people to obey Him. A hundred years ago most christians realized this. A hundred years ago most knew who the beast was. Today confusion reigns supreme, 100s of denominations all claiming to be led by the Spirit of God. All claiming to know the truth. All claiming that those who don't agree with them are confused. What enlightenment, what understnding, what love.

God bless,

Dennis

[Pilgrim7]

John 3:16,

You need to read the Scriptures again. There is only one 'New Covenant' and that was brought to us by Jesus and ratified by His precious blood. There will be no more Covenants. The 'New Covenant' was received by the 'remnant of Israel' for the Apostles were all Israelites.

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he (Jesus) is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

8:7 For if that first covnant (Old Covenant) had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second (New Covenant).

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

8:9 Not according to the covenant (Old Covenant) that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away..................

Here Jesus contrasts the Old and New Covenants:

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us].

9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Like I said above, confusion reigns supreme.

God bless,

Dennis

[branchesofHim]

Good posts here on this subject. I'll just add a couple of things that will confirm what has already been posted.

The Old Testament was a "natural" example of the "spiritual" truth which was to come in Christ Jesus ... and did.

Matthew 5

"17": Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

"18": For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"19": Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"20": For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

"21": Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

"22": But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

"23": Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;

"24": Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

"25": Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

"26": Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

"27": Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

"28": But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

"29": And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

"30": And if thy right hand offend thee, cut if off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

"31": It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

"32": But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

"33": Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

"34": But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

"35": Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

"36": Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

"37": But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

"38": Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

"39": But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

"40": And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

"41": And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

"42": Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

"43": Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

"44": But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

"45": That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

"46": For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

"47": And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

"48": Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Colossians 2

"16": Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

"17": Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Matthew 22

"35": Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

"36": Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

"37": Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

"38": This is the first and great commandment.

"39": And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

"40": On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5

"14": For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jesus is the fulfilment of the natural to bring in the spiritual.

I. Corinthians 15

"22": For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

"45": And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

"46": Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Romans 8

"1": There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

"2": For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

"3": For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

"4": That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

Jesus is the reason for everything. Simple. All glory be to God!

Amen.

Peace.

[Smalcald]

Frankly I don't understand what you mean or anybody means when they say Christ abolished the law at the cross? I think you mean that we are not saved by the law, well that is basic Christian doctrine, only faith in Christ can save us I would hope we all agree on that, but faith means that we love the moral law and want to follow it out of love for Christ.

Certainly scripture does not support this idea that we should ignore the moral law, which I believe scripture clearly paints as the ten commandments (we can argue about what the Sabbath commandment means to a Christian, but that is a different topic than establishing a starting point for what the moral law is). If we don't have a defined moral law, we don't have repentance, if we don't have repentance we have no need for forgiveness. People don't know what sin is, they need guidance and if we just say the law is gone, we do not help anybody, nor do we convict people of their sin so that indeed they may know that they need a savior.