Prophecy

[felix]

My premise is simply to keep things on topic. I'm trying to stay away from ad hoc debates which throw the topic way off from the OP. The reasons are very clear....you and I have experienced this in this thread and other ones as well.

I thought I discussed this with you through PM...or in secret.

....please read what I wrote again. I said I don't hold or expect anyone to abide by this but clearly since I wrote it...I will abide by it. For the most part this is what I (emphasize on I) will do. For others, I know that this is not totally practical and that this is a public board which only needs to abide by the rules of this forum. That is why it's simply a favor for me. But knowing people like you this can not always be the case. You are still free to do whatever you want.

Yod, I see why you would mention that my premise would be like a monologue. That is actually not what I am after; although, after reading what I wrote again, it seems that way. What I envisioned was a thread where the comments and questions stuck strictly to the original point. I was expecting disagreements and agreements alike but I personally was planning on responding to them through PM. Of course, there needs to be other opinions and responses to them but I hope they can be limited to the OP. I know that's not very possible because people will respond to the opinions on their opinions and so on. But I'm hoping they would know to PM when the posts become ad hoc....maybe I should define that "ad-hoc".

ad hoc-

1 a : concerned with a particular end or purpose <an ad hoc investigating committee> b : formed or used for specific or immediate problems or needs <ad hoc solutions>

2 : fashioned from whatever is immediately available

But sincerely, no big deal....feel free to post.

Edited March 12, 2006 by felix

[Guest yod]

Prophet - represents God to the people

Priest - represents the people to God

What do you mean by "Jesus didn't make any fresh prophecy of salvation"? This seems like a strange statement. Did He not represent God to the people?

What about Paul, Peter, James, or the other Apostles who brought His message to the nations? Wasn't it prophecy when the salvation message (called a "mystery" by Paul) was revealed? If it stops at John what would you call what was Paul doing?

It is shaky ground to make artificial divisions of "new vs. old" which the Bible does not make.

There are at least 2 more Prophets to come who will speak the very rhema of God. In the meantime, every believer is prophecying when they give witness to Yeshua.

[felix]

Prophet - represents God to the people

Priest - represents the people to God

What do you mean by "Jesus didn't make any fresh prophecy of salvation"? This seems like a strange statement. Did He not represent God to the people?

What about Paul, Peter, James, or the other Apostles who brought His message to the nations? Wasn't it prophecy when the salvation message (called a "mystery" by Paul) was revealed? If it stops at John what would you call what was Paul doing?

It is shaky ground to make artificial divisions of "new vs. old" which the Bible does not make.

There are at least 2 more Prophets to come who will speak the very rhema of God. In the meantime, every believer is prophecying when they give witness to Yeshua.

Question: what do you mean by "Jesus didn't make any fresh prophecy of salvation"?

-Jesus WAS the fulfillment of the prophecy of salvation. There was no new prophecy of salvation which was spoken in the Old Testament regarding the salvation PLAN. The New Testament is the fulfillment of this prophecy.

Question: What about Paul, Peter, James, or the other Apostles who brought His message to the nations? Wasn't it prophecy when the salvation message (called a "mystery" by Paul) was revealed? If it stops at John what would you call what was Paul doing?

-They were revealing the salvation plan of God. No one has said it wasn't prophecy, please read the message again carefully. The salvation plan of God stopped at John the Baptist. "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John" (Matt.11:13). So there are now New Testament prophets who do not make any fresh prophecy on the salvation plan of God. This was already done by the OT prophets and if one should prophesy as such he/she would be a lying prophet.

We still have not covered the New Testament believers prophesying and New Testament prophets. We will get ot that....

Caps are for emphasize not yelling or being rude or whatever.

Edited March 12, 2006 by felix

[Catsmeow]

These so-called end-time prophets should not and cannot proclaim any message which is outside the written Word of God. Leaders of certain cults proclaim other ways of salvation than what the Old Testament prophets proclaimed. They are indeed false prophets.

We agree that there are no other means of salvation outside of Jesus Christ, however the Book of Revelation does forewarn of future prophets who prophesy.

Revelation 3:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

[felix]

Hello brothers and sisters,

The third part on the "meaning of Prophecy".

Bible Prophecy Vs World Religions

God had not revealed to the world any other plan of salvation except redemption through His Son since the ministry of John the Baptist.

"God, who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by Whom also He made the worlds". (Heb.1:1-3).

God had spoken to our fathers in the past through His prophets at sundry times and in diverse manners under the Old Testament. ? But He has spoken to us by His Son in these last days. The period of last days began with the ministry of John the Baptist, the forerunner to Christ. After God had spoken by His Son, He has never again spoken by any other man or any of His angels. Those religious leaders who appeared in this world after Christ with the so-called divinely inspired messages other than the gospel of Christ are false prophets. The Bible Prophecy is a litmus test to expose such religious cults. The Bible Prophecy is tested upon the anvil of the world history. ? In other words, the world history is the recorded evidence to prove the prophecies of the Bible.

The Bible Prophecy reveals God and His attributes whereas the so-called divinely inspired religious doctrines do not reveal God and His character as these merely present philosophical thoughts or moral values.

God still speaks to the world only through Christ Jesus or through Church, the Body of Christ. "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him" (John 1:18). It is only the Bible Prophecy that reveals Christ, the Son of God, to the fallen human race. The Bible Prophecy is pivotal on the Person of the Son of God, whereas the world religions are pivotal on doctrines of the so-called enlightened men or prophets who had reportedly received divine messages.

[felix]

Here is the next excerpt from Brother Job

Bible Prophecy Vs Personal Prophecy

The Bible Prophecy is different from the personal prophecy. Apart from the Bible Prophecy, the Old Testament prophets also gave personal prophecies to individuals including kings. For instance, the prophet Nathan prophesied to King David when the latter committed the sin of adultery. Though the New Testament prophets do not make any Bible Prophecy, they make personal prophesies. Agabus, a prophet of the New Testament did prophesy to the church at Antioch of a famine throughout the world. Agabus then prophesied to Paul of persecution in the hands of Gentiles (Acts 11:27-28 & 21:10-11).

Who are the prophets today?

(i) Prophets to world

A prophet is a messenger of God or a spokesperson of God. Under the New Testament, a person who has accepted Christ as his/her personal Savior is a prophet of God to the world because he has God's message of salvation to the world. He/she has to execute the salvation plan of God revealed through the Blood of Christ Jesus by preaching the gospel. He/she has to give the divine message to the lost. He/she cannot have a different message of salvation except through the Blood of Jesus Christ. He/she cannot re-write the Bible Prophecy revealed by God through the Old Testament. The Old Testament prophets prophesied until John. A New Testament prophet interprets the same Old Testament Scriptures in order to reveal Christ Jesus.

(ii) Prophets to Body of Christ

Though every disciple of Christ is a prophet of God to the lost world, yet God has appointed to the Body of Christ a special category of ministers, called prophets in the second place. Their functions are given below:

(i) To exhort, edify and warn the people of God (Acts 15:32)

(ii) To define God's will in the individual lives of the people of God (Acts 13:1-3)

(iii) To predict as led by the Spirit on future events (Acts 21:10-11). However, such prophecies should in no way add or take away the words of prophecies in the Book of Revelation but may confirm the words of prophecies in the said Book.

(iv) To interpret Scriptures including the New Testament books

(v) To comfort the afflicted people of God

(vi) To see and interpret prophetic visions (Acts 10:9-16)

(vii) To condemn sin and to convict the people of sin, righteousness and judgment

(viii) To pronounce divine judgment (Acts 5:1-11)

(ix) To prophesy in Jesus' Name (Matt.7:22). This means pronouncement of deliverance, miracles, healings, etc. in the Name of Jesus Christ (Mat. 7:22, Acts 3:6, 14:8-10, 16:18). Such prophecies should be only in the Name of Jesus Christ.

(x) To give timely prophetic messages to the churches or to the members of the Body of Christ ( Rev.1:4) in the same manner as John gave to the seven churches in Asia. Such prophetic messages should conform to the truth of the revealed Word of God. A prophet should visit individual ministers of God or the churches as led by the Spirit for his ministry. He should not hanker after church pulpits on his own.

(xi) To reveal the secrets of one's heart so as to bring glory to God (I Cor.14:24)

Those who prophesy saying, " thus saith the Lord" do so under the Old Covenant. A New Testament prophet need not say, " Thus saith the Lord". God the Father spoke only in His Son and does not speak directly through His prophets under the New Covenant. A New Testament prophet should not add or delete what God the Father spoke through His prophets under the Old Covenant.

In this chapter dealing with the Bible Prophecy, I have mentioned that the promises of God made to the people under the Old covenant are applicable to His chosen people under the New Covenant. I have interpreted some prophecies from some prophetic books of the Old Testament. You should also prayerfully meditate on the promises of God in the prophetic books, and interpret the same under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. As a student of Bible Prophecy, you may as far as possible memorize the promises of God in the prophetic books of the Bible. For giving a prophetic message of comfort or promise to a church, you may prayerfully meditate on the prophetic books of the Bible from Isaiah to Malachi. You can also give prophetic warnings to the churches, especially on repentance, revival, etc., after meditating on these books.

[felix]

Bump.

I didn't want to go off topic in the Vision: Endangerment of the Environment thread.

We're discussing the proving of a prophet. I hope I have the following clear:

It was stated that a prophet needs to prove that he/she is a prophet of God. In responses I wrote "one should not prove him/herself to be a prophet AS a teacher who needs to proof that he/she has a degree in education or an engineer who needs to show certification in he/she field." If we ever see such a prophet going around and proving that he is a prophet like "hear ye everyone...this prophecy and this prophecy and this sign and this miracle all happened and came to pass and I am the one who spoke these things...I'm therefore a true prophet sent by God." Then you can be sure that there is something wrong and that we should be wary of this person. For even the anti-Christ will do powerful signs and wonders and if we are to believe that one should prove themselves to be a true prophet of God then you could bet that the anti-Christ will do the same. THAT is why we must test the SPIRIT...not by MAN's method like a teacher with her teaching certificate, a cook with his food-handling permit and other man required credentials.

Also the verses quoted

If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:1-3

20'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.' "You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?' "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 88:20-22

Does not say that the prophet himself should prove himself in that manner as described above. "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." The prophet here does not prove himself here. Rather it is made known to us through the passing of which is spoken.

Also, some people still think of prophets in terms of the prophets in the old testament. This is not the case: prophets today are not the same as prophets before Christ just as we are no longer under the old law but the law of Grace. This is discussed here. It is sort of long but please read through it.

Much grace.

[The Journey]

yod,

EXACTLY correct!!

To "prophesy" is literally "to speak forth" God's word. This does not have to be new revelation or a foretelling of the future.

One can be a prophet and teach the Bible.

So misunderstood and so dangerous when many are seeking hard for "signs" to help them believe.

Steve

[Guest jckduboise]

without having gone through and read all of this thread, I will simply say that prophesy is not taught, it is given..those who consider themselves prophets should remember that in order for them to truly be a prophet they must be given the Gift by God and not just hope they will develope a skill..

I find this thread to be distasteful and misleading...and I only read small parts..God tells me that people are wasting their time here...fruit of the spirit should be tested in this matter..

[felix]

without having gone through and read all of this thread, I will simply say that prophesy is not taught, it is given..those who consider themselves prophets should remember that in order for them to truly be a prophet they must be given the Gift by God and not just hope they will develope a skill..

I find this thread to be distasteful and misleading...and I only read small parts..God tells me that people are wasting their time here...fruit of the spirit should be tested in this matter..

Hello sister,

I'm not sure why you would find this thread to be distasteful and misleading. There is no "teaching of how to be a prophet" here. It's explaining the meaning of prophecy. This lesson was aimed to equip us on recognizing, analyzing, and testing prophecies. I would just read the paragraphs preceded with the bolded titles- these are the lessons. The dialogues sort of go off track. All the questions you have about prophecy can probably be answered if you go through the entire lesson. The lesson was written by brother Job whose ministry has done much in my growth with Jesus Christ.