Can anyone CLARIFY Jerimiah 10 for me-?

[Christ's Free Servant]

Ok, I just read Jeremiah 10. Jeremiah was not written specifically to us, the Church, today, but we can learn from its principles. Most people in America, I am assuming, do not cut down trees and from physical idols from them for the purpose of idol worship. I don't know anyone yet who has worshiped a Christmas tree, so that clearly is not the issue here. When you read in the NT Jesus' conversations with the Pharisees, you learn that Jesus is not concerned about outward stuff - what he looks at is the heart attitude. For instance, he broke Sabath laws and even defended his disciples when the Pharisees accused them of sinning against the Sabath. His answer was that the Sabbath was made for man (to rest), not man for the Sabbath. In other words, the Sabbath was not intended to put people in bondage, but rather it was meant to give man a day of rest from his work, because back in those days they worked from sun up to sun down six days a week in hard, physical labor. Most of us today do not do that. The other thing Jesus said is that he desires mercy, not sacrifice. That means that Jesus was not legalistic. It was not about strict adherance to a set of rules, but it was about a heart devoted to God and about loving God and loving others. Afterall, he summed up the ten commandments in those two.

So, what's my point? To apply this passage to us today, we have to look at what is the meaning behind it. Truly it is talking about us having other gods. For them, they formed theirs out of wood. But, don't we do the same? Doesn't every home in America have a big idol right in the middle of their living rooms? Yes, I am talking about TV. Does it have to be an idol? No! But how many American homes plan their days around what is on TV and how many turn the TV on first thing when they walk in the door and don't turn it off until they go to bed at night, and they even have it on during dinner? And, how much really good stuff comes out of that man-made idol? Not much! But, anything or anyone can be our idol. Anything we put above God can be our idol. Following false teaching can be idol worship, and there is false teaching even in main-line denominations. Our jobs, our families, our sports, our social life, our church, etc. - all these can be our idols if we let them. You see, God looks at the heart. Idol worship is a heart issue. That is what Jeremiah 10 is talking about. It is saying that we should not have any other gods before God, and if we do, we can expect to be judged. Jeremiah 7 - 9 captures this very well.

I saw a video a couple of weeks ago by Focus on the Family that was filmed in the Holy Land and in it the speaker talked about how the people were sacrificing to other gods their sons and daughters and he said they would commit all kinds of sexually perverted acts to the idol all with the hope that the god they were worshiping would give them a good crop. Many of them were God's children who were trying to hold on to their belief in the true God as well as would worship this false god. And, doesn't that happen now? So many people claim God as their one true God, but they end up worshiping everything else but God. God becomes nothing more than fire insurance that they keep in their back pocket and pull out for convenience. But, he is not truly their one true God. The speaker also compared the sacrifice of the children on the altar to the 29 Mil children we have murdered in America through abortion and he compared their sexual acts to all the sexual perversions that go on now in our country and the world. And, he paralled how we worship other gods while still trying to hold on to our belief in the one true God. He said that God then says "that's the last straw." He said God says, "enough" and here come the Assyrians to destroy us.

God wants us to get off the fence, to stop being "luke warm" and to declare him as our one true and only God! That is what Jeremiah is about. If we don't do this on our own, God will bring us to our knees. He will say "enough." Personally, I believe he has already said that and the "Assyrians" are coming. Time to make him your one true God!

[EricH]

There is an assumption affot hear that anyone who does not agree with your application of this passage does not believe them

if God says 'not", why would that mean something different to anyone-?

i mean, if you say 'no', i know what that means.

if i say "no", you know what that means.

why is there ANY contention concerning God's meaning-?

why would you chastise me, for advocating God's Word-?

CFS handled this well. We are not disagreeing with you that we should avoid idolatry. We are disagreeing with you on the things that constitute idolatry. It is not the meaning of the passage that it is question. it is how we apply it.

[nish_law]

HI all ,

I think the truth about idoltary is very vast today. Someone once quoted ' Anything placed in your life above the importance of GOD is an idol'.

I think many things today are very worldly like the christmas tree.

[Christ's Free Servant]

While I don't agree with all points CFS gave, the key here is that what is described in Jeremiah chapter 10 is an idol. An idol is something we give worship to. A Christmas tree is not an idol, at least to me. There have been many years that I haven't even bothered to put one up since I am not home enough to enjoy the lights. Regardless of that, I have no convictions about having one either. Is it worldly as someone pointed out? Probably, but what isn't? We are living in the world. The question to me is, is it a sin? Does it transgress God's laws to have a Christmas tree? I believe the answer is no. Is it a sin to worship anything other than God? Yes, because to do so is to make something into an idol.

The idea a Christmas tree is an idol was a favorite doctrine of the late Herbert Armstrong. While his church continues today, those running it have since rejected this doctrine. They have also rejected many of his other teachings. I do not know if you, Spiritblade, are a follower of his or not? I don't want to automatically assume you are just because you hold to this one belief, but if you are, you might want to take a look at the position his church takes today. It is quite different.

To me, the whole thing of a doctrine that singles out a Christmas tree as an idol based on Jeremiah 10 sounds a whole lot like the Pharisees of Jesus' time who were so focused on tradition and ceremony and making sure people followed all the rules that they failed to show love and compassion. Jesus said they were clean on the outside, but dirty on the inside. I, too, could care less whether or not I have a Christmas tree, but it is important to my children, so we put one up for them.

I think if we were going to remove anything "worldly" from our lives or our living rooms, we would have to consider a whole lot more than just the Christmas tree. We would have to live like the Amish and give up cars, electricity, TV, computers and the Internet for sure (I don't know of anything more worldly than the Internet). What does the Bible say - everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial? These things in and of themselves are A-moral. They are neither good nor bad. What we do with them is what makes having them a sin or not.

[Leonard]

Well, just where does 'imitating the heathen' begin? Maybe it's clear back at the point of the 'chopping.' You'd probably better not chop trees anymore. Or steaks, or chops, or chicken.........

Oh, by the way, heathens ate, breathed, went to the bathroom, burped, walked, slept.... Now Brother, I WANT YOU TO STOP IMITATING THESE HEATHENS!!!!

[Guest melchizedek]

Ok, I just read Jeremiah 10. Jeremiah was not written specifically to us, the Church, today, but we can learn from its principles. Most people in America, I am assuming, do not cut down trees and from physical idols from them for the purpose of idol worship. I don't know anyone yet who has worshiped a Christmas tree, so that clearly is not the issue here. When you read in the NT Jesus' conversations with the Pharisees, you learn that Jesus is not concerned about outward stuff - what he looks at is the heart attitude. For instance, he broke Sabath laws and even defended his disciples when the Pharisees accused them of sinning against the Sabath. His answer was that the Sabbath was made for man (to rest), not man for the Sabbath. In other words, the Sabbath was not intended to put people in bondage, but rather it was meant to give man a day of rest from his work, because back in those days they worked from sun up to sun down six days a week in hard, physical labor. Most of us today do not do that. The other thing Jesus said is that he desires mercy, not sacrifice. That means that Jesus was not legalistic. It was not about strict adherance to a set of rules, but it was about a heart devoted to God and about loving God and loving others. Afterall, he summed up the ten commandments in those two.

So, what's my point? To apply this passage to us today, we have to look at what is the meaning behind it. Truly it is talking about us having other gods. For them, they formed theirs out of wood. But, don't we do the same? Doesn't every home in America have a big idol right in the middle of their living rooms? Yes, I am talking about TV. Does it have to be an idol? No! But how many American homes plan their days around what is on TV and how many turn the TV on first thing when they walk in the door and don't turn it off until they go to bed at night, and they even have it on during dinner? And, how much really good stuff comes out of that man-made idol? Not much! But, anything or anyone can be our idol. Anything we put above God can be our idol. Following false teaching can be idol worship, and there is false teaching even in main-line denominations. Our jobs, our families, our sports, our social life, our church, etc. - all these can be our idols if we let them. You see, God looks at the heart. Idol worship is a heart issue. That is what Jeremiah 10 is talking about. It is saying that we should not have any other gods before God, and if we do, we can expect to be judged. Jeremiah 7 - 9 captures this very well.

I saw a video a couple of weeks ago by Focus on the Family that was filmed in the Holy Land and in it the speaker talked about how the people were sacrificing to other gods their sons and daughters and he said they would commit all kinds of sexually perverted acts to the idol all with the hope that the god they were worshiping would give them a good crop. Many of them were God's children who were trying to hold on to their belief in the true God as well as would worship this false god. And, doesn't that happen now? So many people claim God as their one true God, but they end up worshiping everything else but God. God becomes nothing more than fire insurance that they keep in their back pocket and pull out for convenience. But, he is not truly their one true God. The speaker also compared the sacrifice of the children on the altar to the 29 Mil children we have murdered in America through abortion and he compared their sexual acts to all the sexual perversions that go on now in our country and the world. And, he paralled how we worship other gods while still trying to hold on to our belief in the one true God. He said that God then says "that's the last straw." He said God says, "enough" and here come the Assyrians to destroy us.

God wants us to get off the fence, to stop being "luke warm" and to declare him as our one true and only God! That is what Jeremiah is about. If we don't do this on our own, God will bring us to our knees. He will say "enough." Personally, I believe he has already said that and the "Assyrians" are coming. Time to make him your one true God!

sir there is'nt one part of the bible that is'nt speaking to us in one way or another or it would have no purpose inside scripture.