Salvation

[Brother Chad]

Then by your stance, even the devils are saved.

"You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe

[Brother Chad]

It is incorrect to say or to imply that faith is not complete. It is also incorrect to state that faith alone does not bring salvation. God's free justification of the believers is based upon the sacrifice of Christ, because He accomplished an eternal redemption for them. It is because of the sacrifice of Christ that God also justified the believers through their faith (Rom. 3:24-28; 1 Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16). The end result of faith is absolutely salvation (1 Pet. 1:9).

So we can have faith in Jesus and not do any of the things which He commanded us to do and still be saved. We can have faith in Jesus and not follow His Word and still be saved. You are speaking of faith without saving faith. Saving faith will lead us to die to our old selves by repenting of sins (Jesus' death), water baptism by immersion in Jesus' name for remission of sins (be buried with Christ), and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (resurrection of Jesus). These are all clearly related in the Bible.

We must not just accept the gospel of Jesus Christ, we must also apply that gospel to our lives by obedience to its requirements. It takes both.

It was this same form of thinking that caused the Pharisees to add to the basic Laws GOD gave, and put a stranglehold on the people of Israel. They put comma's where GOD had put period's (Matthew 23:1-36)

I am not adding anything to the Bible. It speaks for itself on the issue. I will not live by this easy-believism that has come into play in our times.

[Brother Chad]

So my question is what do the different denominations believe is required for our salvation? Please give your denomination in your reply as this is for study purposes? Thank you for any help!

Brother Chad,

The statement quoted from your original post above appears to be in contrast with your most recent postings. Was the original intent of this thread to ask about salvational requirements, or to challenge others' doctinal understandings with your own?

Sorry if I seem a bit suspicious, but there appears to be an agenda in your postings here.

I am just trying to get to the bottom of this whole issue. I am a newly born Christian (less than two years). I have seen many things that disturb me on the nature of God as well as our salvation. I have made it a point to go by the Bible and nothing but. I wish to learn only what the Bible says and that is why I asked for everyone's doctrines because I don't understand how they can be so different from mine when I am just applying what the Bible says on the subject.

Truly there is no intention of an agenda, just the truth!! Sorry for those posts that seem sarcastic or misleading. I do this out of love and only love.

[Ovedya]

Bo...let me also apologize for intervening on two posts, which were directed to you vice myself. I allowed the "urge" to get the better of me, and I do stand corrected. "Thinking Cap" was in my briefcase...."Impulsive Hat" was in my hand. Sorry old pal...

Not a problem at all, brother,

[Elihu's Girl]

I have a question for Brother Chad... Under the belief system of your church believers in Christ who are not fully immersed at baptism go to hell?

I have never heard or read anywhere that those who are not immersed at baptism go to hell. We don't seek to judge, but rather leave it up to the only One who will, Jesus Christ. However, it is our goal to follow the Bible and do it to the best of our ability. The Bible clearly shows that immersion is the proper way to baptize:

-The word baptism comes from the Greek word bapto which means "to dip." There were other Greek words to indicate sprinkling, but God chose a word to indicate immersion.

-Immersion is the only mode of baptism the Bible records. John the Baptist used the Jordan River (Mark 1:5, 9). John immersed Jesus: "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water" (Matthew 3:16). Philip immersed the Ethiopian eunuch: "They went down both into the water.... and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water" (Acts 8:38-39).

-Paul used baptism to relate a burial with Christ, "Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4). No one is buried by sprinkling or pouring a little dirt on the body, by only by complete submergence.

-Since Bible days, other forms of baptism have arisen, but the Bible never describes these forms. Sprinkling and pouring came about as a matter of convenience. Infant baptism, triple baptism by some trinitarians, and postponement of baptism until the deathbed (an attempt to live one's life in sin and still be saved) are all nonbiblical baptismal practices and made immersion even more inconvenient.

Here are some reasons why the mode of baptism is important:

-Baptism is a biblical command. Since the Bible puts so much emphasis on baptism, we should perform as close to the way the Bible describes it.

-Jesus was immersed as an example for us to follow. It is worth doing the way Jesus and His apostles did it.

-Other modes of baptism were invented from nonbiblical tradition. Jesus condemned tradition fervently when it caused a deviation from God's Word (Mark 7:8; Matthew 15:6).

-The only advantage sprinkling has is convenience and is a poor excuse for not following the Bible.

-Immersion demonstrates obedience to God and respect for His Word.

-Only by immersion do we retain the significance of baptism as a burial with Christ.

I hope this answers your question!

Yes it does, thank you!

I've thought about this before and I feel that it would be disrepectful of me to get rebaptised. Disrespectful of God somehow. I was sprinkled as a baby in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and I have passed the point where I have dedicated my life to God, died to sin and been reborn. What is your opinion Chad? And others... Do you think I should be rebaptised in order to follow Jesus as closely as I can or trust the working that the holy spirit has already done in my life?

I feel queasy and uneasy when I consider being rebaptised by immersion. Almost as if it would be sacreligous.

Sometimes though I feel doubt... it would be awfully romantic to be immersed in water as though dead and submerged and then to reimmerge a new person!!! Very cool. But still... I feel that this would be more to gratify man than to gratify God or a spiritual need within me.

Also I feel that all the things Chad mentions in regards to faith, Chad isn't the Christian walk a growing process. When a seed is planted, under the ground things are happening, even before there is outward evidence. Don't you think faith can be like that? In the beginning stages of faith it may be more about schooling worldly thoughts and personal behaviors than going out and doing showy works. That person may need to be nurtured in faith to grow to the point where they are doers of the word. I know that at certain points where my faith was shaky, being told I wasn't really saved if I didn't do certain things would have shut me down. So maybe it's more about growth for some, rather than an instant transformation into a gung ho disciple. I mean how many times did Jesus turn to his disciples and ask them why they had so little faith? It's a growth process.

Edited April 6, 2006 by Elihu's Girl

[Brother Chad]

Edited April 6, 2006 by Brother Chad

[Brother Chad]

I've thought about this before and I feel that it would be disrepectful of me to get rebaptised. Disrespectful of God somehow. I was sprinkled as a baby in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and I have passed the point where I have dedicated my life to God, died to sin and been reborn. What is your opinion Chad? And others... Do you think I should be rebaptised in order to follow Jesus as closely as I can or trust the working that the holy spirit has already done in my life?

I feel queasy and uneasy when I consider being rebaptised by immersion. Almost as if it would be sacreligous.

Sometimes though I feel doubt... it would be awfully romantic to be immersed in water as though dead and submerged and then to reimmerge a new person!!! Very cool. But still... I feel that this would be more to gratify man than to gratify God or a spiritual need within me.

Also I feel that all the things Chad mentions in regards to faith, Chad isn't the Christian walk a growing process. When a seed is planted, under the ground things are happening, even before there is outward evidence. Don't you think faith can be like that? In the beginning stages of faith it may be more about schooling worldly thoughts and personal behaviors than going out and doing showy works. That person may need to be nurtured in faith to grow to the point where they are doers of the word. I know that at certain points where my faith was shaky, being told I wasn't really saved if I didn't do certain things would have shut me down. So maybe it's more about growth for some, rather than an instant transformation into a gung ho disciple. I mean how many times did Jesus turn to his disciples and ask them why they had so little faith? It's a growth process.

I like how you think here and I understand where you are coming from. The point I am trying to get across is Jesus left us with a help guide for many different situations. The most important of those for us is our salvation. It is our chance to turn from the world and follow God. That is our purpose in life! So we should all strive to follow His teachings on the subject as closely as possible. I am not going to say that because you were sprinkled with water that you are not saved. However, I will say once again that the Bible never uses this approach. When I was 10 years old I was baptized by full immersion in the titles of the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost. Once I really became "born again" in 2004, I realized that the baptism I received was not what Jesus or His disciples taught us, so I was re-baptized in Jesus name and have never been the same since. Still, I am not trying to downplay your salvation here at all, but rather giving my testimony because of the wonderful works that God has done in my life after I started following the Bible as my guide through life. And I still have along way to go.

As far as you being rebaptized, think of this: Paul met some disciples who had been baptized by John's baptism (for repentance) and they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. Did Paul think that all God's work had been achieved here. The answer would have to be no because he re-baptized them all in Jesus name and it was then that they all receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. It would definitely do you no harm in getting rebaptized in Jesus name. All accounts in the New Testament use some form of it and if we are to believe that the Bible is the infallible Word of God then shouldn't we follow it and not man's traditions?

One thing I can say for sure is I would never tell a soul that they were not saved. I am training as we speak to become a minister of the Word and it is my heartfelt desire to seek God's truth, ways, and to walk in obedience to Him. I feel that if we give our heart and soul to God relinquishing all control over our lives to Jesus Christ that He will do all the work and lead us to salvation through the process that He and His disciples have laid out for us. If these parts of the process were not important then why show them in the Bible. Some say that we rely on works for our salvation and if you interpret what I have said to mean that, then you are missing the point. We can only reject or accept what God has offered us. The works are of God. When we give ourselves to Him, we will want to repent, be baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost and on our own none of this would be of any use. It is God and God alone who works out our salvation but we must accept the works of God for it to have any meaning in our lives. Faith is a growing process that is for sure and I think everyone here can attest to that. To receive the full gifts of God we must be obedient to Him and once we complete the simple process of salvation, it is my belief that God then gives us the tools to stand victorious in any storm and in any disaster. The devil and hell have no way to attack and win when we accept the full power of salvation in Jesus Christ and obey His Word. Hallelujah.

Edited April 6, 2006 by Brother Chad

[Elihu's Girl]

Thank you for your testimony brother Chad.

Doesn

[WISDOM]

It is incorrect to say or to imply that faith is not complete. It is also incorrect to state that faith alone does not bring salvation. God's free justification of the believers is based upon the sacrifice of Christ, because He accomplished an eternal redemption for them. It is because of the sacrifice of Christ that God also justified the believers through their faith (Rom. 3:24-28; 1 Cor. 6:11; Gal. 2:16). The end result of faith is absolutely salvation (1 Pet. 1:9).

So we can have faith in Jesus and not do any of the things which He commanded us to do and still be saved. We can have faith in Jesus and not follow His Word and still be saved. You are speaking of faith without saving faith. Saving faith will lead us to die to our old selves by repenting of sins (Jesus' death), water baptism by immersion in Jesus' name for remission of sins (be buried with Christ), and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (resurrection of Jesus). These are all clearly related in the Bible.

We must not just accept the gospel of Jesus Christ, we must also apply that gospel to our lives by obedience to its requirements. It takes both.

It was this same form of thinking that caused the Pharisees to add to the basic Laws GOD gave, and put a stranglehold on the people of Israel. They put comma's where GOD had put period's (Matthew 23:1-36)

I am not adding anything to the Bible. It speaks for itself on the issue. I will not live by this easy-believism that has come into play in our times.

"easy-believism"...Hmmmmmm. Well Chad, for the sake of respect towards my brothers/sisters in CHRIST, partner, I'm not going to go there. I distinctly recall reading where you said something to the effect of "I don't mean to demean anyone's FAITH here." How quickly we forget what we say. You know friend, I gave my life to CHRIST 29 yrs ago (1977), after being reared as a "Black Muslim" (Nation of Islam)...a cultist. And the saddest thing I've seen in the Body of CHRIST are things such as this.

Well, let me just reassure you of this.......this "easy-Believer" will be standing at the Judgement Seat of CHRIST, and many others like myself likewise. Be careful of the words that you choose again, Chad. You could very well be unintentionally confusing and causing doubt in those who are still nourishing on the "milk". Those such as myself don't have a problem with your beliefs, because I don't allow them to effect me (Psalm 1:3).

My challenge to you is to do as King Solomon did...ask our FATHER to give you HIS pure WISDOM from above. You say you've been saved for two (2) years? Here's a little advice an older Christian gave me 20 years ago..."Remember (he told me), while in your Christian walk to keep in mind that GOD is not as concerned about your perceived knowledge, as HE is about your character. HE wants you to develop daily more into the image of HIS SON than anything else." THAT statement has helped me tremendously through the years involving my growth spirtually.

The belief in our LORD's Words are not that complex.

[Littlelite]

I have a question for Brother Chad... Under the belief system of your church believers in Christ who are not fully immersed at baptism go to hell?

I have never heard or read anywhere that those who are not immersed at baptism go to hell. We don't seek to judge, but rather leave it up to the only One who will, Jesus Christ. However, it is our goal to follow the Bible and do it to the best of our ability. The Bible clearly shows that immersion is the proper way to baptize:

-The word baptism comes from the Greek word bapto which means "to dip." There were other Greek words to indicate sprinkling, but God chose a word to indicate immersion.

-Immersion is the only mode of baptism the Bible records. John the Baptist used the Jordan River (Mark 1:5, 9). John immersed Jesus: "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water" (Matthew 3:16). Philip immersed the Ethiopian eunuch: "They went down both into the water.... and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water" (Acts 8:38-39).

-Paul used baptism to relate a burial with Christ, "Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Romans 6:4). No one is buried by sprinkling or pouring a little dirt on the body, by only by complete submergence.

-Since Bible days, other forms of baptism have arisen, but the Bible never describes these forms. Sprinkling and pouring came about as a matter of convenience. Infant baptism, triple baptism by some trinitarians, and postponement of baptism until the deathbed (an attempt to live one's life in sin and still be saved) are all nonbiblical baptismal practices and made immersion even more inconvenient.

Here are some reasons why the mode of baptism is important:

-Baptism is a biblical command. Since the Bible puts so much emphasis on baptism, we should perform as close to the way the Bible describes it.

-Jesus was immersed as an example for us to follow. It is worth doing the way Jesus and His apostles did it.

-Other modes of baptism were invented from nonbiblical tradition. Jesus condemned tradition fervently when it caused a deviation from God's Word (Mark 7:8; Matthew 15:6).

-The only advantage sprinkling has is convenience and is a poor excuse for not following the Bible.

-Immersion demonstrates obedience to God and respect for His Word.

-Only by immersion do we retain the significance of baptism as a burial with Christ.

I hope this answers your question!

I agree, Bro. Chad, after we receive Jesus as our Saviour, then baptism follows, like you said it is dying to the old self, and coming up a new creature in Christ Jesus. Is this true?? Also I have some JW friends, that they say they do not agree with, The Trinity. The Father, Son, and H.S. - They do not understand how 3 people can be in one. can you explain that.??YSIC Littlelite