Symbolisms

[nebula]

When I read the accounts in the old testament, I have learned that Egypt is symbolic of the old way of life. (Israel was called out of Egypt, when things got hot in the desert - LOL - they wanted to go back to their old life in Egypt, and stuff like that.) How ironic that even centuries after Israel is established as a nation, they would still at times turn to Egypt for help! I'm sure a whole study can be done on this topic. IIRC, there's a prophecy that Egypt will turn to the Lord eventually. Cool!

But this is not my question. I wonder, what specifically does Babylon represent symbolically? If Egypt was the old life (like for us, it's our life before Christ), what does Babylon represent? Judgment? Why was the nation used to judge Judah the very nation that is the head of the statue of nations that would dominate the Earth? I know there is a lot of debate on the identity of the Babylon in revelation - but I am not concerned with that in my questioning. I would like to just focus in on what Babylon represents symbolically, the way I mentioned about Egypt.

Any comments or insights?

Thanks!

[Mrs Mac]

Hi Nebula

I wonder if we are being faced with a choice in our walk. We can go back to Egypt and our old ways or we can go on to Babylon a place of the flesh,wherein lies the spirit of oppression and confusion, ruled by non other than Satan himself. Babylon means confusion.

Spiritual Babylon is the corrupt system of religion. If we don't go back to Egypt then we must take care that we don't end up in Babylon worshiping gods of a false religious system. There are many doctrines around that would seek to entice us.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

We have one other choice and that is to walk on ( by faith) into Canaan, the land of living water, where our Lord is waiting for us.

Just my thoughts,

Ethlyn

[nebula]

Hey, Evelyn!

Thanks for responding. I appreciate your thoughts. However . . .

(don't you love it when you get set up like that?)

I am a bit confused about Babylon being confusion or the false religious system.

My train of thought is, for Israel, Egypt was their place of past bondage, yet they kept wanting to go back there. I can see the correlation with our lives. How many Christians when under trials and stuff wish to return to their old ways and/or to flirt with the world?

Babylon to Israel was a captor as well. In this case, Bablyon was God's judgment for their sin(s). At the fullness of time, Babylon fell to the Medes and Persian, and later the Israelites (Judahites) were free to return to Israel. Many did so. Some chose to stay behind. The city of Babylon remained for a time, but the kingdom of Babylon was no more. The Jews who stayed behind did have their later trial (the story of Esther), but the Lord still took care of them.

So, when I see Babylon mentioned again in Revelation, I am not understanding what makes Babylon "Babylon"? If it is confusion or false religion, how so? Or why so? What in scripture indicates that this is so?

Do you understand my line of thinking? What are you seeing that I'm not?

Thanks!

[Mrs Mac]

I understand what you are getting at, Nebula. I have heard it said that Egypt symbolises the old life and it makes sense when we spiritualise the Scriptures. Nothing wrong in that when it speaks to people's hearts.

As far as Babylon goes, I have never heard it spoken of symbolically in the way that you mean. I believe though that if the Lord is speaking to you personally that Babylon is judgment then run with it.

Babylon is false religion in Revelation. Possibly what makes it so is that the real Babylon was known for it's paganism. It began at the Tower of Babel which was the beginning of organised worship with people attempting to build a tower up to God.

Can you imagine how Daniel must have felt when he knew he had to go and live in Babylon, with all of their false gods and food sacrificed to demons. Babylon was in reality an evil place. Spiritual Babylon is an evil place which exists today.

However, it is spiritual Babylon not symbolic Babylon. It is reality manifest in false religion.

Sorry, I'm of no help. Perhaps someone else will chime in.

ETHlyn

[sagz4Christ]

I thought that Babylon was something akin to the city of satan.

Much like Jerusalem is God's city, babylon is for satan....I have heard it refered to as false religion as well. I don't know...I will have to study it for a few days and by that time...the question may have been answered....I will check back in a few days then...after some time in the books!

~your humble servant in Christ

[nebula]

Ethlyn - You're sharing your thoughts; that's OK. Maybe this will clarify things for me. You said, "Babylon is false religion in Revelation." When I have read the passage in Revelation, I didn't see anything that triggers to me that it is "false religion." What passage or description or whatever gives it away as such?

Or why was Babylon targetted as being this center of paganism - weren't all the other nations steeped in paganism? What separates Babylon apart?

Thanks!

sagz - Thanks for being willing to look into it.

[sagz4Christ]

sagz - Thanks for being willing to look into it.

I am about to give you a new twist on the subject of Babylon! It is very interesting and something we all may want to look into.

When I do research, I found the quickest way to find something is to go to www.studylight.com and check there first. Then if I have to search for more in depth sudy material, that is where I get my ideas for searching from. I did this concerning this thread. Here is what I found about Babylon. It is quite long, so I just took the NT

I will provide the link after I post what I found. It is good...really good reading!

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

BABYLON IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Babylon Babulon, is used in New Testament in at least two different senses:

1. Mesopotamian Babylon:

In Matthew 1:11,12,17; Acts 7:43 the old Mesop city is plainly meant. These all refer to the captivity in Babylon and do not demand any further discussion.

2. Symbolic Sense:

All the references to Babylon in Re are evidently symbolic. Some of the most important passages are Revelation 14:8; 16:19; 17:5; 18:2,10,21. In Revelation 17:5 Babylon is designated as musterion. This undoubtedly in dicates that the name is to be under stood figuratively. A few interpreters have believed that Jerusalem was the city that was designated as Babylon, but most scholars hold that Rome was the city that was meant. That interpretation goes back at least to the time of Tertullian (Adv. Marc., iii. 13). This interpretation was adopted by Jerome and Augustine and has been commonly accepted by the church. There are some striking facts which point to Rome as the city that is designated as Babylon.

(1) The characteristics ascribed to this Babylon apply to Rome rather than to any other city of that age:

(a) as ruling over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18);

(b) as sitting on seven mountains (Revelation 17:9);

© as the center of the world's merchandise (Revelation 18:3,11-13);

(d) as the corrupter of the nations (Revelation 17:2; 18:3; 19:2);

(e) as the persecutor of the saints (Revelation 17:6).

(2) Rome is designated as Babylon in the Sibylline Oracles (5 143), and this is perhaps an early Jewish portion of the book. The comparison of Rome to Babylon is common in Jewish apocalyptic literature (see 2 Esdras and the Apocrypha Baruch).

(3) Rome was regarded by both Jews and Christians as being antagonistic to the kingdom of God, and its downfall was confidently expected, This conception is in accord with the predicted downfall of Babylon (Revelation 14:8; 18:2,10-21). As Babylon had been the oppressor of Israel, it was natural that this new power, which was oppressing the people of God, should be designated as Babylon.

The information goes on from there, but this should spark your interest. If it did, follow this link and start reading where it talks about Babylon in 1 Peter 5:13....

Link: www.studylight.org

More to come.....

~your servant in Christ

[Mrs Mac]

Neb, I'm not sure if you're for real. Here goes my little understanding of your question.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Babylon is referred to as worse than a harlot

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

We know from God's references to Israel that fornication of nations refers to idolatry.

You said that you did not want to get into the debate of the identity of Babylon but it is quite important to know that it spawned the mother and child cult in the OT. I can only suggest that you do a study on it.

Chapter 8 of Ezekiel reveals Israel involved in the worship of Tammuz, a Babylonian god.

Babylon as a religion began at Babel and runs throughout the history of the world because it is being dealt with in Revelation.

So, for your purpose, Babylon is symbolic of false religion and idolatry.

I thought that is what you wanted to know.

Ethlyn

[nebula]

Sagz - Thanks for digging up the link! Interesting perspectives.

Ethlyn - Thanks for the explanation. I see how the interpretation has been formulated now. I hadn't heard anyone explain it that way (the why part), and I'm not the best at interpreting symbols on my own.