Guest yod Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 This is a continuation of a thread that started in the wrong place A certain person writes: All I know is that salvation is of God through Christ for all people without discrimination or exception. Then your arguement is not with me. It was Jesus who said, "Salvation is of the jews" In this sense salvation is of the Jews, yes, but it is also of every other race too. Hmmm.....but that is not what Jesus said. I wonder why? Maybe because it isn't true? Did God choose every other race to be a "light to the gentiles". How can a person be a light to themself? Now if you are saying that salvation came to mankind through the Jews I would have to disagree because salvation came to mankind from God and was offered to the Jew first, but is now offered to everybody and rarely is it offered by Jews. Judaism does not lead people to Jesus Christ and there is salvation no other way but through Him. First of all, I'm not saying anything....but God is clearly saying it "for those who have ears to hear" Secondly, you (and everybody else) are products of Jewish evangelism. Had it not been for jews "hating their life unto death" to share the gospel given to them, you would never have heard the name of Jesus. Why does it cause you so much pain to admit that without God using the "chosen people" to bring forth His Messiah and His Word you would still be lost in sin? Sometimes I wonder if one can be saved and despise the jews as much as you seem to. Charles Spurgeon, John Owen, John Calvin, Charles Hodge, John Murray, Jonathan Edwareds, and many more of the greatest theologians of all time all agree with my position and saw the day of Israel returning to the land preceding their return to glory long ago. Here it is staring you in the face and you can't see it? click here for an explaination of what I believe and why...with short commentaries from theologians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Did God choose every other race to be a "light to the gentiles" He has now, yes. Everyone who spreads the gospel is a light for those who are in darkness. Those who preach Christ are a light, not those who deny Him. How can a person be a light to themself? God is their light and they in turn reflect His light to others. The Jews failed in this regard and it has now turned to the children of Abraham who are children of the promise through faith, the followers of God, the saved, the believers in Christ. Secondly, you (and everybody else) are products of Jewish evangelism No, we are a product of the love of God which gave His only son as a sacrifice and compelled them to obey. It was not a work of the Jews but a work of God. Why does it cause you so much pain to admit that without God using the "chosen people" to bring forth His Messiah and His Word you would still be lost in sin? Not necessarily! Luke 19:39 And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples. Luke 19:40 And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. Why? Because it was the work of God, not the work of any man or race. Sometimes I wonder if one can be saved and despise the jews as much as you seem to. Heaven is full of sinners! As far as I know believing in Christ is the only requirement for salvation. If you think believing in the Jews is necessary for salvation you have really missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 QUOTE Sometimes I wonder if one can be saved and despise the jews as much as you seem to. Heaven is full of sinners! Well, I'm glad you can at least admit it's a sin.... that's a good start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Well, I'm glad you can at least admit it's a sin.... I just meant that even if I did "despise Jews" which I don't think I do but you say I do so working from that premise, even if I did it wouldn't seperate me from the love of God because everyone who goes to heaven has to be forgiven for something. Yes I do believe it would be a sin to hate Jews simply because they are Jewish. That would be ridiculous! Even though I don't agree with their theology (Judaism) or their politics, it would be wrong to hate them for it. I see them as lost sinners like anyone else who needs to be forgiven and re-born into a new creature. Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Even though I don't agree with their theology (Judaism) or their politics, it would be wrong to hate them for it. I see them as lost sinners like anyone else who needs to be forgiven and re-born into a new creature. something else we agree on???? Is the moon in the seventh house and Jupiter aligned with Mars??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Is the moon in the seventh house and Jupiter aligned with Mars??? Then peace will guide the planets and love will steer the stars.... nah, doesn't sound like it. I think that was a happening back in the 60's at a rock festival somewhere featuring Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted October 3, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Jesus preached the gospel to the Jews and the Gentiles alike. So perhaps your understanding of the phrase "Salvation is of the Jews" is a bit skewed from what the Lord meant? Just a thought here. Old Testament prophesies and the Lord's very words both confirm that God's intention was salvation of all men, not Just Jews. Paul also wrote, "...To the Jew first, then to the Gentile." Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your approach to this here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yhudah Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 ?Paul also wrote, "...To the Jew first, then to the Gentile."? bet, a-yin, hay Tishrei 6, 5763 Shalom. Yes, that is correct: ''To the Jew first, then to the Gentile.'' Moreover, God's plan, or pattern establised by Scripture hasn't ever changed. So who changed? God didn't! Scripture didn't! Who did? Why? The Church had come to be separated from it Hebraic root. The Tanakh [The Hebrew Scriptures] How are we going to have a true and full relationship with God, if we neglect the patterns that he establishes in the Hebrew Scriptures. God patterns never change that he has established. I know well some or even many here are not going to really understand much about what I just shared. But if you will just meditate on it in time it will come and you will come to better understand what I just shared. That is, if your life is really laid down to ADONAI [the LORD], and you are really wanting to understand this I shared. In time it will come. God has called the Gentile Church to take the Good News of Yeshua HaMashiach [Jesus the Messiah] to the Jews, the Jewish nation. Why had salvation come the Gentiles? The answer the Bible gives for it can be read in Yeshua's Emissary Sha'ul's [Apostle Paul's] letter written to Messianic [Christian] Community in Rome, he had written in that letter that ''deliverance [salvation, that means to be made righteous] came to the Gentiles, in order to PROVOKE them [the Jews] to JEALOUSY.'' (See Romans 11:11) Now I realize some people will not like that and some may get angry over it. But that is the only answer that the Bible gives for it. As a just by the way, in the Tanakh [The Hebrew Scriptures] it can also be seen how God used Ruth, a Gentile, to bring Naomi, a Jew, barley seeds [That is a type of the Word of God]. And so this is what we are to be doing today. However, it is going to take more than just tracts and sermons to reach the hearts of the Jewish people. But that in itself is another issue. And there are reasons for it. Yhudah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Jesus preached the gospel to the Jews and the Gentiles alike. So perhaps your understanding of the phrase "Salvation is of the Jews" is a bit skewed from what the Lord meant? Just a thought here. Old Testament prophesies and the Lord's very words both confirm that God's intention was salvation of all men, not Just Jews. Paul also wrote, "...To the Jew first, then to the Gentile." Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your approach to this here? you are confusing the meanings of the words "of" and "for" Jesus was saying that salvation was a concept known only to Jews. Of course it is for everyone, yet Jesus even said that He came only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He was pretty unpolitically correct when dealing with that Syro-Phonecian woman. There are not many gentiles mentioned whom Jesus spoke to. One being the Centurion who understood authority...another centurion who showed great love for the jewish people so Jesus healed his daughter, the Syro-Phonecian woman, and the Samaritan woman at the well. When a couple of Greek gentiles came seeking Jesus on His last day (John 12:20), He didn't meet with them but rather said to Andrew that "My time has come" because now the nations were seeking him for the first time. So God used the jewish race to birth salvation for all mankind and therefore this is what Jesus meant when He said, "Salvation is of the jews" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest idolsmasher Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Moreover, God's plan, or pattern establised by Scripture hasn't ever changed. Sorry to have to break the news to you but things have changed immensly since Old Testament times. There is a New Covenant, a new law, and a new people of God. Why had salvation come the Gentiles? This is the real reason: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. So God used the jewish race to birth salvation for all mankind and therefore this is what Jesus meant when He said, "Salvation is of the jews" So why all the fuss yod? It's still to God's glory and no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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