Arjuous Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 90 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 (edited) Where is your evidence that a diety doesn't exist you have none though you repetively beat a dead horse in saying you have evidence that a divine diety does not exist. Never said that a general god could not exist, just that the Christian God does not. So therefore you do not have a faith in which to defend just empty words you dote about as if you do have a faith but it is not it is unbelief that you are defending to the hilt and not faith. Faith - Noun - "strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof." No, I do not have 'faith,' nor do I believe snakes or donkeys can talk without proof. I also don't believe that God could produce one contradiction, and since the bible is riddled with them, it furthers my position. But hey, go ahead, keep attacking me with terrible and unexplained quips slapped within atrocious grammar and sentence structure, I'm sure you'll raise another great point... Again you cannot have or defend a faith in nothing as you have said that you do not believe in the existence of a divine diety being the Creator of all you see around you. I didn't say that. Furthermore I said it was perfectly rational that a god does exist, but it is completely irrational to assert that he wrote the bible, and THAT is what I have been saying this entire time. READ THE POSTS and try and contribute something to the conversation other than rhetoric. Which you don't even acknowledge that you yourself has a Creator. Your own existence is evidence that a divine diety or Creator has to exist or how did you get here. ...you don't even read posts do you? Oh science did it for you I see Even a salesman brings a product to the table to get you to buy. But you have no evidence that a divine diety does not exitsts. Wow you're wrapped up on this one. I NEVER SAID THAT. Furthermore, it's impossible to prove something like that, you can't examine something like 'God.' What you can examine is the only evidence you have of the Christian diety, which is the bible and the claims it makes. Since it makes extraordinary claims that are completely disproven scientifically, and contains all of the mythic elements that other religions that preceded it, besides containing a terrible idea of morals, I can say with certainty that God didn't write the bible. So again take your own advice here and stop defending a so called faith you say you have when it is not a faith at all. ...where did I say that? No, I don't have faith, and don't think anyone should, because of what the definition entails, acting without evidence (also known as ignorance) Ignorance - Noun - Lack of knowledge, information, or proof One cannot have a faith in nothing but they can have unbelief in nothing. So it is more appropriate for you to say defending the "UNBELIEF" openly curious You really just don't read anything people write, it's sad. Edited July 27, 2006 by Arjuous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 No, I don't have faith, and don't think anyone should, because of what the definition entails, acting without evidence (also known as ignorance) Ignorance - Noun - Lack of knowledge, information, or proof I felt the need to interject on this "faith" point. We (ideally) act as if life were intrinsically valuable and as if all human lives were of equal worth. Do we have "evidence" of these things we take for truth? Or are we acting without evidence--out of ignorance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjuous Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 90 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 (edited) No, I don't have faith, and don't think anyone should, because of what the definition entails, acting without evidence (also known as ignorance) Ignorance - Noun - Lack of knowledge, information, or proof I felt the need to interject on this "faith" point. We (ideally) act as if life were intrinsically valuable and as if all human lives were of equal worth. Do we have "evidence" of these things we take for truth? Or are we acting without evidence--out of ignorance? Good question. If by 'we' you mean atheists, which is how I read that comment, then no, we aren't acting out of ignorance. Crossing the street without looking both ways would be acting out of ignorance. But if you observe your surroundings and then make a decision, it is not ignorance. Also, and a better point I feel, is that humans are blatently social animals. We care for our families and companions, and do not like to see others in pain. It's a survival mechanism for our species that accounts for our tendancy to help our fellow man, and I think its great. It is a good question though. "Do we have "evidence" of 'human lives' being of 'equal worth?'" Well, you could rationally conclude that all humans are equal, but it isn't something that warrants 'evidence.' It certainly isn't irrational to help your fellow man, humans have prospered for that exact reason (such as the field of medicine). But it is incredibly irrational to observe your environment and then ad hoc a god into it, for no other reason than ancient text and common, religion spanning spiritual experiences. Edited July 27, 2006 by Arjuous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 But it is incredibly irrational to observe your environment and then ad hoc a god into it, for no other reason than ancient text and common, religion spanning spiritual experiences. Aujuous, You did this in post #41 when you said "a general god" but not the Christian God. It really is humorous because your own observations come into play as you have observed your own environment and said you never said that a general god couldn't exist but not the Christian God. Well I would have to by your own words now say that you are "incredibly irrational" Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 Never said that a general god could not exist, just that the Christian God does not. This is the quote in which I was referring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 Good question. If by 'we' you mean atheists, which is how I read that comment, then no, we aren't acting out of ignorance. Crossing the street without looking both ways would be acting out of ignorance. But if you observe your surroundings and then make a decision, it is not ignorance. Also, and a better point I feel, is that humans are blatently social animals. We care for our families and companions, and do not like to see others in pain. It's a survival mechanism for our species that accounts for our tendancy to help our fellow man, and I think its great. It is a good question though. "Do we have "evidence" of 'human lives' being of 'equal worth?'" Well, you could rationally conclude that all humans are equal, but it isn't something that warrants 'evidence.' It certainly isn't irrational to help your fellow man, humans have prospered for that exact reason (such as the field of medicine). Now, see, I agree with all of this. When it comes to the intrinsic value of life and equality among humans, acting in the absense of "evidence" is not irrational. It is rational, but I am still inclined to call it "faith". Where we differ, of course, is on the point of God's existence. You write: But it is incredibly irrational to observe your environment and then ad hoc a god into it, for no other reason than ancient text and common, religion spanning spiritual experiences. I find my own consciousness and my recognition of your self-consciousness miraculous, granted that we are surrounded by objects that never act without reacting and never show any signs of the consciousness we possess. Could this have happened on accident... by chance? It certainly is not irrational to conclude (in the absence of "evidence") No--my awareness of myself and the world, my intelligence, my creativity, my imagination, my productivity and innovation could not have happened on accident. Such an incredibly (perhaps infinitely) complex thing as consciousness must have been designed. And a similar conclusion could be drawn about other natural phenomena. Why is this conclusion irrational? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjuous Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 90 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 Aujuous, You did this in post #41 when you said "a general god" but not the Christian God. It really is humorous because your own observations come into play as you have observed your own environment and said you never said that a general god couldn't exist but not the Christian God. Well I would have to by your own words now say that you are "incredibly irrational" Openly Curious You are the Dumbest person I think I've ever encountered. You did this in post #41 when you said "a general god" but not the Christian God. Yes, belief that a general god could exist is rational, saying he 'must' or 'does' exist is not. Also, belief in a 'Christian God' is NOT THE SAME THING as thinking that a god created the universe. It really is humorous because your own observations come into play as you have observed your own environment and said you never said that a general god couldn't exist but not the Christian God. Well I would have to by your own words now say that you are "incredibly irrational" I DIDN'T SAY THAT, FOR THE TENTH TIME, READ THE POSTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjuous Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 90 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/22/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 (edited) This is the quote in which I was referring Exactly, I never said a general god could not exist, just that the Christian God does not. How can you not understand that. Edited July 27, 2006 by Arjuous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 I didn't say that. Furthermore I said it was perfectly rational that a god does exist Aujuous, You just can't have it both ways either it is irrational or not you play both sides. oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted July 27, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 27, 2006 You are the Dumbest person I think I've ever encountered. I guess you will have to blame my preacher's last sermon on that cause he read out of the bible that God chose the foolish things to confound the wise. So just blame it on the God in which I serve. OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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