apothanein kerdos Posted August 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 12, 2006 Think of it this way: Diversity is a very, very good thing when done properly. Assume you have a white man, a black man, and a latino man in the same room. Now, all can be Christians, all can worship the same God, all can have the proper theology, but all can also have completely different cultures. Culture applies to music, food, certain traditions, celebrations, dances, etc. Unfortunately, false religion creeped in. The problem with the cultures in Israel's conquest wasn't that they were different, it was that they simply refused to follow God. If it were a cultural issue and not a religious one, then Rahab would not have been allowed to be spared. Yet, because she believed in God (though from a different culture), she was spared. Also, just because one is of the same culture doesn't mean they can't worship different gods. Look to modern times where someone from a white middle class culture can worship God, while another from the other kind can worship the mighty dollar. All of that is fine, even if I don't think that religion can be so easily untangled from other cultural forms. It still doesn't account for why God wanted cultural diversity. I understand and accept that we can't always know or understand the why , but the text suggests that He wanted it in order to prevent people from unifying and cooperating--and to prevent them from being omnipotent. How do you read that? Keep in mind, they were unifying and creating against God...it was as a testament to their own will...thus God established this seperation as a punishment and a means to divide man against that. Look at the modern day and how multiple cultures come together to solve the world's problems absent of God's help....and look at how it is a miserable failure. This is what God was showing, that this diversity is good but the complete seperation was bad. In other words, man forced seperation but God brought all cultures back together through Jesus Christ. If I remember right, you said you are African-America...well I'm Eastern European Jew. You and I probably come from different backgrounds and have different cultural customs (though not too many consider we both have been "americanized")...yet here we are discussing culture in a civil manner. Why? Because we have been unified in Christ. So I guess what God was showing out of this is two things: 1) Man cannot unify and act on their own absent of God, it will always fail and always cause problems 2) This caused diversity in a good way, but seperation in a bad way....the bad way being overcome by Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Keep in mind, they were unifying and creating against God...it was as a testament to their own will...thus God established this seperation as a punishment and a means to divide man against that. Look at the modern day and how multiple cultures come together to solve the world's problems absent of God's help....and look at how it is a miserable failure. This is what God was showing, that this diversity is good but the complete seperation was bad. In other words, man forced seperation but God brought all cultures back together through Jesus Christ. If I remember right, you said you are African-America...well I'm Eastern European Jew. You and I probably come from different backgrounds and have different cultural customs (though not too many consider we both have been "americanized")...yet here we are discussing culture in a civil manner. Why? Because we have been unified in Christ. So I guess what God was showing out of this is two things: 1) Man cannot unify and act on their own absent of God, it will always fail and always cause problems 2) This caused diversity in a good way, but seperation in a bad way....the bad way being overcome by Christ. Something in there really struck a chord. All this talk of a world-government and worldwide conspiracy--Was the Tower of Babel a precursor or foreshadow or symbol of what is to come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2006 Keep in mind, they were unifying and creating against God...it was as a testament to their own will...thus God established this seperation as a punishment and a means to divide man against that. Look at the modern day and how multiple cultures come together to solve the world's problems absent of God's help....and look at how it is a miserable failure. This is what God was showing, that this diversity is good but the complete seperation was bad. In other words, man forced seperation but God brought all cultures back together through Jesus Christ. If I remember right, you said you are African-America...well I'm Eastern European Jew. You and I probably come from different backgrounds and have different cultural customs (though not too many consider we both have been "americanized")...yet here we are discussing culture in a civil manner. Why? Because we have been unified in Christ. So I guess what God was showing out of this is two things: 1) Man cannot unify and act on their own absent of God, it will always fail and always cause problems 2) This caused diversity in a good way, but seperation in a bad way....the bad way being overcome by Christ. Something in there really struck a chord. All this talk of a world-government and worldwide conspiracy--Was the Tower of Babel a precursor or foreshadow or symbol of what is to come? It's what it always has been. What has always been the ambition of evil men in this world....to bring the world under a one government domination. From the ancient kings to Napoleon, to Stalin, to Hitler........the desire of these men was to bring all governments under their grasp of power. So I woudln't say it was a foreshadowing but instead a statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 Something in there really struck a chord. All this talk of a world-government and worldwide conspiracy--Was the Tower of Babel a precursor or foreshadow or symbol of what is to come? It's what it always has been. What has always been the ambition of evil men in this world....to bring the world under a one government domination. From the ancient kings to Napoleon, to Stalin, to Hitler........the desire of these men was to bring all governments under their grasp of power. So I woudln't say it was a foreshadowing but instead a statement. Sure, but no one has succeeded in this ambition to the extent that those in charge of the Tower succeeded. But it's true--the stereotypical supervillain in comic books and their real-world correlates all want to take over the world. Could "taking over the world" be what God meant by "nothing will be impossible for them"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 14, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 14, 2006 Something in there really struck a chord. All this talk of a world-government and worldwide conspiracy--Was the Tower of Babel a precursor or foreshadow or symbol of what is to come? It's what it always has been. What has always been the ambition of evil men in this world....to bring the world under a one government domination. From the ancient kings to Napoleon, to Stalin, to Hitler........the desire of these men was to bring all governments under their grasp of power. So I woudln't say it was a foreshadowing but instead a statement. Sure, but no one has succeeded in this ambition to the extent that those in charge of the Tower succeeded. But it's true--the stereotypical supervillain in comic books and their real-world correlates all want to take over the world. Could "taking over the world" be what God meant by "nothing will be impossible for them"? I think "nothing will be impossible" refers to the extent of our evil. Multiple governments keep other governments in check. If the US began to treat its citizens however it pleased, others would step in to stop (or hopefully...in the modern age of lacking moral clarity, maybe not). To use the example of Hitler, look at the level of evil achieved by his limited domination. Look at the Roman Empire and when all major territories had been captured, look at how evil it was. Murder was practically legalized......there was no limit onto the ammount of sin people could heap upon themselves. Nothing was impossible for them to achive...to the point that prostitutes had contests to see who could sleep with the most men in one night and this was celebrated. Look to the US and how, undoubtedly we are the most powerful nation, and it seems nothing is becoming impossible for us as well. The greater power a person or people have, the more it seems that no level of degredation is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted August 15, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 15, 2006 I think "nothing will be impossible" refers to the extent of our evil. Multiple governments keep other governments in check. If the US began to treat its citizens however it pleased, others would step in to stop (or hopefully...in the modern age of lacking moral clarity, maybe not). To use the example of Hitler, look at the level of evil achieved by his limited domination. Look at the Roman Empire and when all major territories had been captured, look at how evil it was. Murder was practically legalized......there was no limit onto the ammount of sin people could heap upon themselves. Nothing was impossible for them to achive...to the point that prostitutes had contests to see who could sleep with the most men in one night and this was celebrated. Look to the US and how, undoubtedly we are the most powerful nation, and it seems nothing is becoming impossible for us as well. The greater power a person or people have, the more it seems that no level of degredation is impossible. I didn't even think to look at it that way... mainly because there is no apparent connection between acting collectively in the building of a tower and morality/immorality. How would building the tower have led to moral degradation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 16, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2006 I think "nothing will be impossible" refers to the extent of our evil. Multiple governments keep other governments in check. If the US began to treat its citizens however it pleased, others would step in to stop (or hopefully...in the modern age of lacking moral clarity, maybe not). To use the example of Hitler, look at the level of evil achieved by his limited domination. Look at the Roman Empire and when all major territories had been captured, look at how evil it was. Murder was practically legalized......there was no limit onto the ammount of sin people could heap upon themselves. Nothing was impossible for them to achive...to the point that prostitutes had contests to see who could sleep with the most men in one night and this was celebrated. Look to the US and how, undoubtedly we are the most powerful nation, and it seems nothing is becoming impossible for us as well. The greater power a person or people have, the more it seems that no level of degredation is impossible. I didn't even think to look at it that way... mainly because there is no apparent connection between acting collectively in the building of a tower and morality/immorality. How would building the tower have led to moral degradation? Now we're going in circles. This goes back to the primary violations: 1) They violated God's command to spread out 2) They wanted to reach God without relying on God Thus, the sin of what they were doing was found in them trying to do something autonomous from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts