Copper Scroll Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2006 Though I tend to avoid discussions on the theory of evolution or other ideas based in science that atheists tend to use to attack religious ideas, other threads here got me wondering how Christians really feel about science. Most atheists tend to assume that Christians fear science, and I'm wondering how true this stereotype is. So, Christians, what are your views on "science" in general? Here's a couple of passages from Genesis that I think speaks to the topic of science: Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. This seems like science to me--the most basic form of science: language as a way of organizing knowledge. If it is to read read this way, then God wanted Adam to practice science--to get to know the natural world and to organize his knowledge and understanding of the natural world. Let's see where the gifts of language and science led: Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth." But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other." So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted July 28, 2006 From what I understand, the reason God was displeased was because the people of Babel were trying to reach "Heaven" without Him through this tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Yes, the people were being lofty in their own self-importance, seeking to reach God in that way, apart from the way God had given. Shows me that man's thoughts can be altogether wicked apart from the influence of the Holy Spirit. Science, in my view, is merely the observing of the hand of God! Everything that exists, seen and unseen is by His hand alone. He doesn't object our gazing upon His creation and trying to understand it...He is pleased with that! But when we attribute His creation to something other than Him, once again, we are going off on our own, in our own self-importance, abandoning the One who set it all in motion. When I think of things scientific, I rejoice at the workmanship of my God! What a wonderful, wonderful God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candi770 Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 119 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,316 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/01/1970 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I do not need ungodly scientists who have their own agendas to try to prove that God doesn't exist-they have their followers-I have not desire to follow what they have to say. I am interested in science that points to the truth of the bible and the wonders of creation. I also consider that in most schools those who are writing the textbooks have their agenda and a way to spread messages. I bet if you went back in time-they would have supported slavery-etc. American Indians were documented unfairly, etc. It's interesting to find books that represent the facts and not opinions and hatefull attitudes that some have. Whatever the flavor and mood of our culture-that you will find textbooks that are tainted. Yes our children need to know the climate of the culture-but they don't need to be bathed in another mans agenda. Textbooks should contain the known facts, period. Let the children come up with their own opinions-thats where discussion arises-but when the opinion of the day is the man's who wrote the book-what kind of learning is that. People would be interested in Darwin-if they went deeper into his opinion. Darwin thought that people of darker color were inferior to the white man-it was documented but do they tell you that in a textbook-no. Let the people hear the truth-Darwin could not have been a man of character. All men were created equal by God. Do a study of the main leaders of the science movements=find what their underlying agenda was, their attitude toward common man and see=what was the agenda-what did they want others to learn. What were they preaching? blessings candi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billie Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,849 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/17/1979 Share Posted July 28, 2006 God didn't think we could reach Him! Wherever did you get that idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I, a Christian, do NOT fear science in any way, and neither do any of my Christian associations. Rather, we embrace all that God reveals to us about who He is and how He thinks and what He has provided for His and our enjoyment! Bring it on! We love to witness the hand of God! We seek to praise Him in every new discovery! His magnificence is more and more exposed! Hallelujah! It is a neverending source of glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Reaching Heaven From what I understand, the reason God was displeased was because the people of Babel were trying to reach "Heaven" without Him through this tower. I wonder whether what you mean by "reach 'Heaven'" is the intent of the text when it says "reach to the heavens". Maybe we need the input of someone who knows the original language well enough to provide insight. But I'm inclined to think that the people just wanted to reach the sky, which appears to symbolize a position of power and control over the world. This might mean that those people sought to replace God. Perhaps the reason why God intervened is because He knew the people were fallible and sinful and, with that kind of power (omnipotence, in fact), they would probably destroy the world. This brings up another question: Can scientific progress and collective action make us omnipotent? The text seems to suggest this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Science as a Tool Science, in my view, is merely the observing of the hand of God! Everything that exists, seen and unseen is by His hand alone. He doesn't object our gazing upon His creation and trying to understand it...He is pleased with that! But when we attribute His creation to something other than Him, once again, we are going off on our own, in our own self-importance, abandoning the One who set it all in motion. When I think of things scientific, I rejoice at the workmanship of my God! What a wonderful, wonderful God! I agree, but I also think that science was given to us as a tool. Remember that the context in which God led Adam to name the beasts was that God was looking to give Adam a "helper" so that Adam could care for and oversee Creation. Language and science are intended to be "helpers", aids, tools--and like every tool, language and science has limitations. That can't do anything correctly outside of their function or their purpose. Science can tell me what I am, but science can't tell me who I am. Thanks for your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copper Scroll Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 682 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 15 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Bad Science I do not need ungodly scientists who have their own agendas to try to prove that God doesn't exist-they have their followers-I have not desire to follow what they have to say. Yes, we should be mindful of the fact that scientists can have foul agendas. They are supposed to do everything within their power to eliminate bias and to be objective. This is never completely possible, but if scientists don't make the effort they are practicing "bad science". In a way, though, scientists are supposed to have agendas. They are supposed to make the reason for their explorations known and they are supposed to solve problems. Of course, their reasons can be bad and they can end up causing more problems than they solve... but, again, that's bad science. Could the passage from Genesis 11 be an admonition against bad science? How does it characterize bad science? Is bad science characterized by the collective action or the intention to "make a name" for oneself... or both? I'm inclined to think that the egotism/narcissism and the will to power (greater power than what could be used sensibly or responsibly) were what really displeased God. Sometimes, I feel that these are the roots of most of the evil will find in the world. But how does the collective action aspect of the story fit in? It does seem to figure prominently enough in the text? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylvan3 Posted July 28, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted July 28, 2006 I, a Christian, do NOT fear science in any way, and neither do any of my Christian associations. Rather, we embrace all that God reveals to us about who He is and how He thinks and what He has provided for His and our enjoyment! Bring it on! We love to witness the hand of God! We seek to praise Him in every new discovery! His magnificence is more and more exposed! Hallelujah! It is a neverending source of glory! Does this mean that if a you saw conclusive scientific data that shows that the existence of God can't be proven, you would consider that objectively without bias? It sounds to me more that you are substituting "nature" for science. I believe there is a difference. To me, science involves establishing cause and effect. To my knowledge, the scientific evidence for the existence of God is sorely lacking. However, I will be happy to consider any independent studies (i.e. things outside of Biblical claims) that establishe the existence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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