Guest Gladiator4God Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Live long and prosper........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReflectionsofHim Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 QUOTE (Gladiator4God @ Jun 20 2004, 09:40 PM) I never seen where aliens were mentioned in the bible, if it isnt mentioned why bother with it. Live long and prosper........... As my mama would have said to these two posts: "It is better to be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReflectionsofHim Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I must give everyone here that has joined in and contributed to this important discussion due credit for "debating without hate". Each and every one that has joined in this discussion has been civil, mature, and with one ultimate core interest in mind....serving Jesus our Lord and Savior with the goal of winning more souls for God's Kingdom. I would like to personally thank each and every one that has intelligently participated in this topic and discussion and for their input, studies, contributions, and diligence in examining God's Word; all in the spirit of open-mindedness and for respecting one another's views, beliefs, and callings as their particular membership that makes up the Body of Christ. It has been my honor and blessing to be a part of this discussion and hopefully we have all learned something new in regards to the varying aspects of God's Word from each other. What I have observed as a/the great common denominator here is that "ufos" and "aliens" is widely accepted and agreed upon as unholy in nature and spiritual realm and with a purpose that involves the deceiving of many away from Jesus. Last, but not least, I find it uplifting that the exchange of ideas and sharing of thoughts and opinions has been done in the love of Christ...just as He would have us do, Amen. I'm in no way ending this healthy and holy discussion, but at this time I feel the loving lead of the Holy Spirit to interject these thoughts I have about it all and say thanks to those of you that have intellectually and thoughtfully contributed. Love through our Jesus indeed, Ref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted June 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 Rick: I appreciate your offering an alternative view point. However, I would rather take ALL references to 'sons of god' and see for myself what they all have in common (in the OT) and judge in their context what that phrase means. Were angels created by God? Yes. Was Adam created by God? Yes. Were the fallen angels created by God? Yes. And judging by the contexts of ALL of the verses that mention this phrase in the OT, this is the one and only commonality they all have! Simply - They were all created by God! In two verses, 'sons of God' approached God with satan. Who accompanied satan to go to the Lord to discuss Job? Please tell me who they were? Again, there's nothing wrong with showing us another point of view at all. But remember, in all likelihood that the disciples probably beleived in the fallen angels scenario and the early church up until 500 AD beleived in this as well. The theory you choose to believe was created because the originally believed account was receiving ridicule, much the same way folks today try to manipulate scriptures to make evolution fit. It fits with the modern thought, however, it doesn't fit with the scriptures nearly as well. The OT is being revealed here in a strangely bizarre, yet fascinating way to us here. And it's suddenly making more more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsylady Posted June 26, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 26, 2004 begotten adj : (of offspring) generated by procreation; "naturally begotten child" Just so you don't think I'm disregarding Hebrews 1:5. Yes, Jesus was God's only begotten son. He was the only one generated by procreation. That's why the word 'begotten' is used so much when used to desribe Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 27, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 265 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/19/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 27, 2004 Rick: I appreciate your offering an alternative view point. However, I would rather take ALL references to 'sons of god' and see for myself what they all have in common (in the OT) and judge in their context what that phrase means. Were angels created by God? Yes. Was Adam created by God? Yes. Were the fallen angels created by God? Yes. And judging by the contexts of ALL of the verses that mention this phrase in the OT, this is the one and only commonality they all have! Simply - They were all created by God! In two verses, 'sons of God' approached God with satan. Who accompanied satan to go to the Lord to discuss Job? Please tell me who they were? Again, there's nothing wrong with showing us another point of view at all. But remember, in all likelihood that the disciples probably beleived in the fallen angels scenario and the early church up until 500 AD beleived in this as well. The theory you choose to believe was created because the originally believed account was receiving ridicule, much the same way folks today try to manipulate scriptures to make evolution fit. It fits with the modern thought, however, it doesn't fit with the scriptures nearly as well. The OT is being revealed here in a strangely bizarre, yet fascinating way to us here. And it's suddenly making more more sense. Artsylady, I tend to agree that ALL of the references for sons of God should be examined in light of finding the true context of the term. The danger lies not in examining ALL of them, but in attributing a meaning to only one based on a preconceived understanding. As for the sons of God mentioned in Job in verses 1:6, Job:2:1, and Job:38:7, of which you asked " Who are these?" . To attribute a definition would be no different than what has already been done on this thread. If you are asking my personal opinion as to who these are, I would have to state that I believe they are also mere men. Many accounts tend to place the scenario as to the meeting place as in heaven, where these sons of God come before God, and present themselves. The problem I see with this is that it isnt mentioned in the scriptures as having taken place in heaven. The fallen angels that these are alluded to being were once cast from heaven. It would not make much sense that they would be able to come into the presence of God in His Holiness after falling, especially since they were cast from heaven to begin with. Its also important to remember that God walked among men on the Earth even after the Garden of Eden was closed off to mankind. Even after Cain slew Abel. Gen. 4:16 reveals that Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod. There are other verses that indicate that Enoch walked with God. Whether this is literal in its description or representative of his relationship with God is unclear, but with Cain being in the presence of God as mentioned earlier, it becomes likely that it is indeed literal. The literal viewpoint that the sons of God are indeed those that called on the name of the Lord as mentioned in " Gen:4:26: And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. " , is in fact an explanation that would hold throughout the Bible, Old Testament and New. It would not require that a different definition be used for each. This interpretation would also make more sense in that if fallen angels procreated with mankind in the beginning of creation, being created beings, when did it stop? If it was in fact taking place then, it would still be taking place today. The destruction of the flesh would not have destroyed angelic beings. They would have continued to procreate and destroy mankind through this inter-breeding. But if these were reserved in chains of darkness as the scriptures reveal, Then it would not have been possible. Under His Blood, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReflectionsofHim Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Hey Ref! You post some VERY interesting topics....it really gets the gears in me ole noggin turnin', ya know ? Please keep up the great work! This is definitely a different perspective that many of us ( myself included ) never even thought to consider....great job! In HIM, Bob Thank you, Brother! It amazing how when we grease the gears in Truth how the "ole noggin" tends to do that! I've put a few years and a whole lot of study hours in God's Word in this area...combine that with triple the prayer and, well, we find that the Holy Spirit is gentle but very convincing. The point is, I'm so blessed to see God is using it for His glory! For without that it serves no purpose! I used to believe in the Sethite theory, but this "theory" just never quite set well with my spirit. There were too many unanswered questions and yet the more I kept after God and seeking Him on all of this, then more and more became clear and that "peace that surpasses all human understanding", that also cccaccompanies God's Truths also came to be something that I hold especially dear. You see, Brother, God's Word is not about "theory", but about Truth, His Truth, and it is the same Truth that is there for anyone that seeks it and Him, our Father in Heaven. As far as this being a different perspective? It is a perspective that belongs to anyone that truly desires for God to reveal His mysteries to them...to all of us. There is a reason why I, and others that have come to know God's Truthful Word on this all, remain at peace, without discord, without argument, and in one accord. It is because we have found peace and knowledge in His Truth, based solely on His Word. This is available to any one of His children that seek Him. As always, seek His Word which is His Truth and seek Him through prayer; for the Holy Spirit desires to lead you into all Truths...especially in these last days. Love through our Jesus, Ref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Just keep on keepin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReflectionsofHim Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 As for the cut and paste by Chuck Missler, Im sure his point of view helps in selling his books concerning alien encounters etc. From my own studies I have come across comments of his plagiarism of other sources that he failed to attribute credit to. I tend to think that his interest may be more financial than in search of truth. His views tend to overlook any other explanation as legitimate, Im sure this is necessary in leading one to accept his particular viewpoint as the only possible scenario. Although many Bible scolars reject it. Some of which I provided on an earlier post, and time prohibits me from posting again. He uses un-inspired sources to explain the Bible, such as the Book of Enoch etc. Not very credible source to explain the truth of God's word. His comments are based on his leading his readers to accept his viewpoint rather than on Biblical truth. The "cut and paste by Chuck Missler" implies that I pick and choose in order to slant a view to fit my points, which is untrue. You imply that his point of view helps in selling his books concerning alien encounters, etc. The "etc" part is the part where he teaches and preaches the Gospel of Christ as equally as any other "point of view". What I find interesting in your accusation of his plagiarism. Had I included an article or excerpt from Chuck Missler or any other Christian author withOUT their included resources, you would say that they included no resources. Had I included an article or excerpt from he or any other Christian author DID include their resources (and I did) you would accuse them of plagiarism. This is called the "doggone if I do and doggone if I don't" trap. I expected this in advance. But I must make an extremely valid point, so let me remind you and others of something very important here in your reference to his agenda being in "selling his books"...Though many, many Christians alike, are seeing the supernatural phenomena for what it is based on God's Word, I'm quite certain that had "selling books" been their sole and primary focus they could have and probably would have chosen a subject matter that would have been sure to reap them more profits. If my motivation in writing a book is to make money I'm going to pick a subject that is sure to be a blockbuster subject...indeed. Lastly, it's a shame that the main and primary resource, the Bible aka God's Word has supplied more than adequate amounts, by both Chuck Missler and other Christians...theologians, scholars, and last but not least...by those here that love God, love His Word, and are dedicated to Him and all of His Word. And while the book of Enoch is no longer "lost" and is not considered by some to be a true "book" of the Bible? It is indeed a history book that can no longer be denied...even the scholars stand behind this truth. It has become more than difficult to further deny what the usage of the phrase/term(s) "sons of God" and "sons" means in the varying locations of the OT and NT and why each represented something different. It has been pointed out several times as to why each was represented as they were and God's Word has been more than clear and precise about that. Without the deliberate intention of being condescending to you, but it makes absolute and perfect sense that God destroyed the earth with a flood, but NOT because of a sinful man who you say were/are the "sons of God". There would be no point in God telling us that if "sons of God" were mortal men that they had sexual relations with "human women". The distinction between the two alone tells us that there was a mortal AND (the word "and" is the definitive word here) supernatural difference bewteen the two that created the Nephilim. Even the offspring of this mortal and immortal union warranted be given a select name.What DOES make absolute and perfect sense is for God to have destroyed the earth with flood in order to eliminate the blasphemously contaminated gene pool. I really mean no disrespect here, Rick, but it just doesn't get any clearer than this, I mean really. This is not said in or with the tone that we all here are right here, but in light of reemphasizing God's Word about "human" women (why would a disitinction need to be made in the mortal context??? there would have been no need for one if there hadn't indeed been a supernatural/immortal and there just isn't any other way to put this). Then God's Word makes more than one referral later in Scripture about the oddities of the result of the Nephilim. God's Word has been way too clear about WHAT the "sons of God" were and were not in the OT context of these "sons". I have learned a great deal more than even my own countless hours of studies from artsylady, Brother John, and all of those that have contributed in the understanding and Scriptural facts regarding this subject. And while what the "sons of God" are in regards to this topic...meaning they play an obvious integral role to "aliens" and "ufos" and what they really are is "fallen angels", we simply live in times where there are too many unexplainable "sightings" of these fallen angels by extremely credible people who have no agenda in selling books, becoming famous, and many are not even Christians. This whole phenomena has brought about a fear that God's Word specifically tells us is not something that He authors. At this point in the whole phenomena I have concluded that there are two reactions to it...one being the discernment to know more about what it is based on a Biblical and spiritual level and, two, being just the opposite...denial. One of the most famous traits to denial is to try and explain away something because of pure unmitigated fear. Once we as Christians have come to know Jesus in the ways He so desires for us to, we can't live in denial or fear, either one. They just can't coincide and live together. That brings us back to the whole concept of darkness not going hand in hand with the light. We have nothing to fear when we know Jesus in the way He has taught us. When we choose not to live in fear and in denial, we see and discern the mysteries and the proverbial blinders are removed! Love through our Jesus...For He has not given us a spirit of fear! Ref Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted June 29, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2004 Ref, sorry..to butt in but I saw you posting again...good to see you back.. Okay, sorry for interrupting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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