Dangerous Heresy

[truthbringer]

The other protection against heresy are the Universal Christian Creeds which were developed to stamp out heresy, that was their point then and I think they are useful now for that.

On practical basis though, if someone is selling something it usually comes through. Any doctrine that says you can get rich through Christ would be pretty telling. They have this complex theological underpinning to something very basic and base, selling faith as a way to get rich. However many people who have nothing or are powerless in this world, are often deluded into trying this one thing, and I think we should be sensitive to their gullibility, while holding these snake oil salesmen accountable for their fraud, or as Paul talks about what they are doing calling it "peddling the Word of God". It is amazing if we stick to the plain words of Scripture how easy it is to uncover most of these spiritual frauds.

yes the creeds are good tools, especially if you can find the proofs for them as well, they make a very good bible study all on their own.

All the creeds or just some of them? I mean one creed says Jesus went to hell and I don't believe he did, so...that shouldn't make me a heretic??

Yes.

[stacey c]

[1]Jesus teaches faith, Paul teaches faith, Maybe you are a little misinformed about Bible doctrines.

[2]The Greek says, We are humanly divine and divine'ly human.

[3] Maybe these men have a greater revelation then you do, [it appear's that they do]

So you agree that....

God is bound by the law of faith and this means He is obligated to obey the faith-filled commands and desires of believers?

and you agree that humans are "little gods"?

and you are saying that the Bible supports these two things?

Matt.7:7-8 "Ask and it shall be given unto you, seek and ye shall find, kncock and it shall be opened." v.8 " For everyone that asketh recieveth, and he that seeketh shall findeth, and to him that knocketh it shall be opened."

Matt.21:21-22 ""Verily I say unto you, if ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea, it shall be done." v22 "And all things, whatsoever ye shall askin prayer, believing, ye shall recieve."

John 16:24 "Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name; ask and ye shall recieve so that your joy may be full."

James 1:6-7 "but let him ask in faith, nothing wavering, for he that wavereth is like the wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed." v.7 "For let not that man think he shall recieve anything of the lord."

let me get this straight, you are saying that these verses say that the creator of the universe, the one that made us all, is subject to commands?

Subject to commands? No these verses and more, show that GOD said my faith moves Him on my behalf. And He will answer ANYTHING I ask believing. And I know He's a God that cannot lie. I for one take Him at His Word.

[Guest man]

He will answer ANYTHING I ask believing.

And that's the key. "Believing", that He will.

[stacey c]

He will answer ANYTHING I ask believing.

And that's the key. "Believing", that He will.

Absolutely man, that is the condition on our prayers being answered, believing/faith.

[Floatingaxe]

He will answer ANYTHING I ask believing.

And that's the key. "Believing", that He will.

Absolutely man, that is the condition on our prayers being answered, believing/faith.

[Guest shiloh357]

When you don't permit God, He won't work on your behalf. A Christian needs to yield

That is not what Copeland Fred Price teach. They teach that God must legally wait for us to give Him permission to operate in the natural realm. It is not a matter of yielding to his leading. Their contention is that has his hands tied behind his back and has to wait on man's permission to operate supernaturally in the world.

I know of no such belief. Some aberrant Word of Life church people tout this, but I don't know any

Kenneth Copeland teaches as do other Word of faith teachers like Joyce Meyers and Fred Price. They are the old guard when it comes to the "Word of Faith movement."

No Christian believes that.

Kenneth Copeland does. IN fact, both he and Fred Price have taught that if blood was all God needed, one of the thieves on the cross could have died for us. They both teach that Jesus paid for our sins in Hell, not on the cross.

4. That it is okay to put curses on people that disagree with you.

No Christian believes that.

Really, well it was cited up above, and Truthbringer said that all of those things including putting a curse on those who disagree with you is backed up by the Word. Then YOU affirmed what Truthbringer said. I assumed you read the list. Perhaps you ought to actually READ what you are lending your approval to before giving your tacit approval.

If they are what you think are Word of Faith teachings then you are into a source that is breeding hype and lies. I know of a Word of Life church that did major damage to its congregation and was disbanded. They are out there, but they are aberrant, and not the norm. Reading the blogs and websites of the enemies of the work of the Holy Spirit, you will no doubt get the impression that Word of Faith beliefs are off the wall

I didn't get it from the websites of their enemies. I took it from the above list that you Truthbringer gave your approval of. Like I said, you should probably read something before endorsing it. The stuff you say are lies are what is being taught by Word of Faith movement's leaders. You can call it lies, but its there in their books on their websites.

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, the Copelands teach that. You are wrong. We can tie the hands of God with many attitudes, and unyieldedness is a biggie

I doubt very much that the Copelands teach any of what you say.

[Guest shiloh357]

Yes, the Copelands teach that. You are wrong. We can tie the hands of God with many attitudes, and unyieldedness is a biggie..

Yes, but they are not talking about Yieldedness. They are saying that God needs our permission to step into the world, which is a direct assault on God's sovereignty. We may hinder God's work in our lives, but God does not need our permission to operate in this realm.

You are simply confusing issues.

[Floatingaxe]

Yes, the Copelands teach that. You are wrong. We can tie the hands of God with many attitudes, and unyieldedness is a biggie..

Yes, but they are not talking about Yieldedness. They are saying that God needs our permission to step into the world, which is a direct assault on God's sovereignty. We may hinder God's work in our lives, but God does not need our permission to operate in this realm.

You are simply confusing issues.

If you don't permit God to enter into anything on your behalf, He won't. Truly, I think we are dealing with alarmists and they are crying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

I don't agree with everything that people here say are Word of Faith beliefs, but I surely love to hear the Copelands and I love Joyce Meyer, and yeah, man--I watch Creflo Dollar almost every morning!---and these so-called quotes of Copeland I am free to discount or embrace, but the slander that is being thrown out in this thread is actually splashing back on y'all. You can't go around throwing mud at the brethren, and not be sullied yourself.

[Guest shiloh357]

If you don't permit God to enter into anything on your behalf, He won't.

Once again, that is not issue being raised. We are not talking about God doing anything on your behalf.

Copeland and Price teach that God cannot operate in this world at all without our permission. God needs our permission to step into this world. You are either don't know what they teach, or you are purposely trying to deflect attention away from their teachings which strike upon God's sovereignty.

I think we are dealing with alarmists and they are crying, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

You are simply unwilling to face up to the heresies and lies that these false teachers spreading around.

I am free to discount or embrace, but the slander that isbeing thrown out in this thread is actually splashing back on y'all. You can't go around throwing mud at the brethren, and not be sullied yourself.

It's not slander if its true. The definition of slander is when you spread falsehoods in an attempt to defame. The fact is Copeland really does teach that God is not sovereign, that Jesus blood is not sufficient, and that God needs mankinds permission to step one foot into the natural realm.

They may be fine people in other contexts, in fact, I respect the fact that Hinn, Copeland, and others have been faithful to their spouses, so they are not all bad, but their teachings are a theological trainwreck.