RebekahDavid Posted September 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2006 Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" (Mat5:9) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted September 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2006 God said of Jesus "This is my beloved Son, in whom i am well pleased" (Mat3:17) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted September 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2006 and i will close with one for you you workoholic you lol Jesus said "Come to me all who are weary and i will give you rest. (Mat11:18) Have a safe trip John Lennon i look foward to talking with you when you return Rebekah David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted September 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2006 One of the songs that inspired me growing up was Imagine by John Lennon..it was a song that crystalized his vision for the world. Imagine no heaven...no hell below us..above us only sky. I think of the song as a benign view that he developed as a result of things he had read and derived from comparative religion theories of Joseph Campbell and the Beatles' visits with the Maharishi. The dream Lennon had of people living in peace and simply sharing the world is what the song implies as if religion had never existed in the first place. A common goal that I would hope most people generally seek. Religion has driven people apart and caused division and intolerance in the world and the search for God and truth seems to have been lost in the confusion. Imagine a world that got it right and never invented religion but lived in virtual harmony! Is'nt that was Jesus would have wanted for the world anyway?-He was just a guy like Ghandi who spoke of brotherhood and loving one and other. Those are concepts even an atheist can grasp! This whole idea of being "saved" is up to us..we can save ourselves! The Beatles, along with John Lennon, echoed a philosophy in their music that was very prevalent during the 1960's. Basically, as with each generation, they were seeking a meaning to life, existence, some form of hope to cling to...something to explain the world they experienced, yet something that wouldn't restrain them or define these things in such a way that would limit their freedom. From what I understand, they experimented with various "religions" and philosophies (particularly eastern religions). The existential philosophies of Satre, Heidegger and Jaspers lent themselves well to the whole hallucinogenic drug era because people were seeking some "experience" that was outside of themselves to validate their existence and give meaning to their life. The eastern religions fit well into this frame as well because they all reach for a "non-rational" meaning to life too. It's more of an idealistic hope (of peace and unity for instance), but without any definition or rationality behind it. After discovering that fact that using drugs left them unfulfilled, there was a period where musicians tried to emulate this "experience" with a music style, the result was psychedelic rock (this would've been eximplified in "Strawberry Fields Forever" for the Beatles). Again, this is existential philosophy, which essentially seperates belief/faith/answers from reason; nothing is understandable or explainable. Anyway, once you accept the philosophy that the answers to life are beyond our reason, then every "religion" or attempt to find an optimistic hope becomes merely a "dream" or a vision and it really doesn't matter which "religion" you pursue. The sad thing is, you'll be hard pressed to live this consistently because your life experience will not reflect your beliefs..which will leave you unfulfilled, holding onto nothing but an imaginary utopia. As far as I know, there is no other philosophy or religion that explains and defines the human problems while also offering solutions that fit within our human experience the way Christianity does. Contrary to what some say, Christianity does not require us to deny our reason or abandon rationality in order to "leap into faith" that is not explainable. I think in order to have a more productive discussion, we would need to address your worldview. Would you care to define it? For instance, every worldview has a few basic components: 1. The concept of God. Some hold that everything is God, some don't believe a God exists, but regardless...every worldview holds some belief about the concept of God. 2. Humanity/Creation. Some hold that we're all here by chance, others believe we were designed by a Creator. Each worldview will address some idea of how humanity came into existence. 3. Fall/Problem. Every worldview has to address the issue of the problems of our world. Where did it break down? What is the problem? 4. Redemption. What do we do about the problem/s? How can the world be set right? In your original post, you imply that you agree somewhat with Lennon. If we are to 'save ourselves', this begs the question...save ourselves from what? This brings me back to the worldview questions. How do you explain how everything began, when the problem/s began and how we should go about setting things right? You imply that belief in Christianity and heaven are irrational, and yet this seems to be the basis for your own belief (in an imaginary utopia). Can you explain why your belief is more acceptable to you than Christianity? John Lennon, I was wondering if you ever read this post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted September 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2006 John Lennon one more quote i forgot " Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" talk to you when you return Rebekah David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted September 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2006 One of the songs that inspired me growing up was Imagine by John Lennon..it was a song that crystalized his vision for the world. Imagine no heaven...no hell below us..above us only sky. I think of the song as a benign view that he developed as a result of things he had read and derived from comparative religion theories of Joseph Campbell and the Beatles' visits with the Maharishi. The dream Lennon had of people living in peace and simply sharing the world is what the song implies as if religion had never existed in the first place. A common goal that I would hope most people generally seek. Religion has driven people apart and caused division and intolerance in the world and the search for God and truth seems to have been lost in the confusion. Imagine a world that got it right and never invented religion but lived in virtual harmony! Is'nt that was Jesus would have wanted for the world anyway?-He was just a guy like Ghandi who spoke of brotherhood and loving one and other. Those are concepts even an atheist can grasp! This whole idea of being "saved" is up to us..we can save ourselves! The Beatles, along with John Lennon, echoed a philosophy in their music that was very prevalent during the 1960's. Basically, as with each generation, they were seeking a meaning to life, existence, some form of hope to cling to...something to explain the world they experienced, yet something that wouldn't restrain them or define these things in such a way that would limit their freedom. From what I understand, they experimented with various "religions" and philosophies (particularly eastern religions). The existential philosophies of Satre, Heidegger and Jaspers lent themselves well to the whole hallucinogenic drug era because people were seeking some "experience" that was outside of themselves to validate their existence and give meaning to their life. The eastern religions fit well into this frame as well because they all reach for a "non-rational" meaning to life too. It's more of an idealistic hope (of peace and unity for instance), but without any definition or rationality behind it. After discovering that fact that using drugs left them unfulfilled, there was a period where musicians tried to emulate this "experience" with a music style, the result was psychedelic rock (this would've been eximplified in "Strawberry Fields Forever" for the Beatles). Again, this is existential philosophy, which essentially seperates belief/faith/answers from reason; nothing is understandable or explainable. Anyway, once you accept the philosophy that the answers to life are beyond our reason, then every "religion" or attempt to find an optimistic hope becomes merely a "dream" or a vision and it really doesn't matter which "religion" you pursue. The sad thing is, you'll be hard pressed to live this consistently because your life experience will not reflect your beliefs..which will leave you unfulfilled, holding onto nothing but an imaginary utopia. As far as I know, there is no other philosophy or religion that explains and defines the human problems while also offering solutions that fit within our human experience the way Christianity does. Contrary to what some say, Christianity does not require us to deny our reason or abandon rationality in order to "leap into faith" that is not explainable. I think in order to have a more productive discussion, we would need to address your worldview. Would you care to define it? For instance, every worldview has a few basic components: 1. The concept of God. Some hold that everything is God, some don't believe a God exists, but regardless...every worldview holds some belief about the concept of God. 2. Humanity/Creation. Some hold that we're all here by chance, others believe we were designed by a Creator. Each worldview will address some idea of how humanity came into existence. 3. Fall/Problem. Every worldview has to address the issue of the problems of our world. Where did it break down? What is the problem? 4. Redemption. What do we do about the problem/s? How can the world be set right? In your original post, you imply that you agree somewhat with Lennon. If we are to 'save ourselves', this begs the question...save ourselves from what? This brings me back to the worldview questions. How do you explain how everything began, when the problem/s began and how we should go about setting things right? You imply that belief in Christianity and heaven are irrational, and yet this seems to be the basis for your own belief (in an imaginary utopia). Can you explain why your belief is more acceptable to you than Christianity? John Lennon, I was wondering if you ever read this post... Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted September 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted September 12, 2006 At one time there was a world without religion. But, man screwed it up. Mankind was created in the image of God, perfect and uncorrupted. Because we were holy, God was able to walk amongst us. We were able to see Him and have a physical, personal, relationship with Him. So God banished us from Eden and left our presence. Because we turned our backs on God, He basically said: You think you know more than me, go ahead then, live life without me and see where it leads you." In the presence of God, all we know and have is of Him, our knowledge and faith are there. Because we are too evil to be in the presence of God, we are given speculation and faith in Him, instead of absolute proof. Speculation gets interpreted differently with every person it reaches and now look, there are as many religions on the planet as there are stars in the sky. Only one speaks absolute truth, but it isn't just given, it's learned through patient study of God's word, prayer and meditation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lennon Posted September 13, 2006 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 152 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/06/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 13, 2006 One of the songs that inspired me growing up was Imagine by John Lennon..it was a song that crystalized his vision for the world. Imagine no heaven...no hell below us..above us only sky. I think of the song as a benign view that he developed as a result of things he had read and derived from comparative religion theories of Joseph Campbell and the Beatles' visits with the Maharishi. The dream Lennon had of people living in peace and simply sharing the world is what the song implies as if religion had never existed in the first place. A common goal that I would hope most people generally seek. Religion has driven people apart and caused division and intolerance in the world and the search for God and truth seems to have been lost in the confusion. Imagine a world that got it right and never invented religion but lived in virtual harmony! Is'nt that was Jesus would have wanted for the world anyway?-He was just a guy like Ghandi who spoke of brotherhood and loving one and other. Those are concepts even an atheist can grasp! This whole idea of being "saved" is up to us..we can save ourselves! The Beatles, along with John Lennon, echoed a philosophy in their music that was very prevalent during the 1960's. Basically, as with each generation, they were seeking a meaning to life, existence, some form of hope to cling to...something to explain the world they experienced, yet something that wouldn't restrain them or define these things in such a way that would limit their freedom. From what I understand, they experimented with various "religions" and philosophies (particularly eastern religions). The existential philosophies of Satre, Heidegger and Jaspers lent themselves well to the whole hallucinogenic drug era because people were seeking some "experience" that was outside of themselves to validate their existence and give meaning to their life. The eastern religions fit well into this frame as well because they all reach for a "non-rational" meaning to life too. It's more of an idealistic hope (of peace and unity for instance), but without any definition or rationality behind it. After discovering that fact that using drugs left them unfulfilled, there was a period where musicians tried to emulate this "experience" with a music style, the result was psychedelic rock (this would've been eximplified in "Strawberry Fields Forever" for the Beatles). Again, this is existential philosophy, which essentially seperates belief/faith/answers from reason; nothing is understandable or explainable. Anyway, once you accept the philosophy that the answers to life are beyond our reason, then every "religion" or attempt to find an optimistic hope becomes merely a "dream" or a vision and it really doesn't matter which "religion" you pursue. The sad thing is, you'll be hard pressed to live this consistently because your life experience will not reflect your beliefs..which will leave you unfulfilled, holding onto nothing but an imaginary utopia. As far as I know, there is no other philosophy or religion that explains and defines the human problems while also offering solutions that fit within our human experience the way Christianity does. Contrary to what some say, Christianity does not require us to deny our reason or abandon rationality in order to "leap into faith" that is not explainable. I think in order to have a more productive discussion, we would need to address your worldview. Would you care to define it? For instance, every worldview has a few basic components: 1. The concept of God. Some hold that everything is God, some don't believe a God exists, but regardless...every worldview holds some belief about the concept of God. 2. Humanity/Creation. Some hold that we're all here by chance, others believe we were designed by a Creator. Each worldview will address some idea of how humanity came into existence. 3. Fall/Problem. Every worldview has to address the issue of the problems of our world. Where did it break down? What is the problem? 4. Redemption. What do we do about the problem/s? How can the world be set right? In your original post, you imply that you agree somewhat with Lennon. If we are to 'save ourselves', this begs the question...save ourselves from what? This brings me back to the worldview questions. How do you explain how everything began, when the problem/s began and how we should go about setting things right? You imply that belief in Christianity and heaven are irrational, and yet this seems to be the basis for your own belief (in an imaginary utopia). Can you explain why your belief is more acceptable to you than Christianity? John Lennon, I was wondering if you ever read this post... Me too Oh yeah! This agnostic will do a Lot of reading and thinking before I return. Thanks again Rebekah David and all at worthy-and you read Power of Myth-Rebekah!! I'm about to leave!! Yahoo!!!! I may try to write some songs while I'm on vacation-time to take out the guitar and dust it off! Bye Mates! JL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted September 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2006 "you read Power of Myth-Rebekah!! :)Will do John Lennon have a wonderful vacation!!!!! Rebekah David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabowd Posted September 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 112 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,489 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2006 One of the songs that inspired me growing up was Imagine by John Lennon..it was a song that crystalized his vision for the world. Imagine no heaven...no hell below us..above us only sky. I think of the song as a benign view that he developed as a result of things he had read and derived from comparative religion theories of Joseph Campbell and the Beatles' visits with the Maharishi. The dream Lennon had of people living in peace and simply sharing the world is what the song implies as if religion had never existed in the first place. A common goal that I would hope most people generally seek. Religion has driven people apart and caused division and intolerance in the world and the search for God and truth seems to have been lost in the confusion. Imagine a world that got it right and never invented religion but lived in virtual harmony! Is'nt that was Jesus would have wanted for the world anyway?-He was just a guy like Ghandi who spoke of brotherhood and loving one and other. Those are concepts even an atheist can grasp! This whole idea of being "saved" is up to us..we can save ourselves! The Beatles, along with John Lennon, echoed a philosophy in their music that was very prevalent during the 1960's. Basically, as with each generation, they were seeking a meaning to life, existence, some form of hope to cling to...something to explain the world they experienced, yet something that wouldn't restrain them or define these things in such a way that would limit their freedom. From what I understand, they experimented with various "religions" and philosophies (particularly eastern religions). The existential philosophies of Satre, Heidegger and Jaspers lent themselves well to the whole hallucinogenic drug era because people were seeking some "experience" that was outside of themselves to validate their existence and give meaning to their life. The eastern religions fit well into this frame as well because they all reach for a "non-rational" meaning to life too. It's more of an idealistic hope (of peace and unity for instance), but without any definition or rationality behind it. After discovering that fact that using drugs left them unfulfilled, there was a period where musicians tried to emulate this "experience" with a music style, the result was psychedelic rock (this would've been eximplified in "Strawberry Fields Forever" for the Beatles). Again, this is existential philosophy, which essentially seperates belief/faith/answers from reason; nothing is understandable or explainable. Anyway, once you accept the philosophy that the answers to life are beyond our reason, then every "religion" or attempt to find an optimistic hope becomes merely a "dream" or a vision and it really doesn't matter which "religion" you pursue. The sad thing is, you'll be hard pressed to live this consistently because your life experience will not reflect your beliefs..which will leave you unfulfilled, holding onto nothing but an imaginary utopia. As far as I know, there is no other philosophy or religion that explains and defines the human problems while also offering solutions that fit within our human experience the way Christianity does. Contrary to what some say, Christianity does not require us to deny our reason or abandon rationality in order to "leap into faith" that is not explainable. I think in order to have a more productive discussion, we would need to address your worldview. Would you care to define it? For instance, every worldview has a few basic components: 1. The concept of God. Some hold that everything is God, some don't believe a God exists, but regardless...every worldview holds some belief about the concept of God. 2. Humanity/Creation. Some hold that we're all here by chance, others believe we were designed by a Creator. Each worldview will address some idea of how humanity came into existence. 3. Fall/Problem. Every worldview has to address the issue of the problems of our world. Where did it break down? What is the problem? 4. Redemption. What do we do about the problem/s? How can the world be set right? In your original post, you imply that you agree somewhat with Lennon. If we are to 'save ourselves', this begs the question...save ourselves from what? This brings me back to the worldview questions. How do you explain how everything began, when the problem/s began and how we should go about setting things right? You imply that belief in Christianity and heaven are irrational, and yet this seems to be the basis for your own belief (in an imaginary utopia). Can you explain why your belief is more acceptable to you than Christianity? John Lennon, I was wondering if you ever read this post... Me too Oh yeah! This agnostic will do a Lot of reading and thinking before I return. Thanks again Rebekah David and all at worthy-and you read Power of Myth-Rebekah!! I'm about to leave!! Yahoo!!!! I may try to write some songs while I'm on vacation-time to take out the guitar and dust it off! Bye Mates! JL. I'm looking forward to your reply. Enjoy your vacation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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