"God theory"

[Floatingaxe]

It is simple lepaca. You come into everyones forums, complain about everything and do nothing about anything. You must just be here to argue because that's all you ever do you never discuss anything blah blah blah that's all you hear whatever have a nice day.

Floating axe I apologize I have a problem with saying stupid things when I am trying to make a point. I shouldn't have said Jesus was not perfect. I had just been making the point to Khalou that if God expected perfection from everyone than we would be made that way.

I understand, completely!

[Observer of dreams]

Khalou

Then you agree that the state has no business passing laws based on Christian morality?

I agree with that 100%, The US has no right to have a biased toward any one religion. I don't think the State, or the government have any buissness passing any kind of moral laws at all, leave morality to God, Humans will just screw things up. If you don't believe that just take a look at history. <<<opinion

Hi Lepaca,

If your going to teach by pointing out fallacies then don't teach your biased ideology Lepaca. Teach something objectively.

If your aim is not to teach then your just trying to cut me down and I feel that is very rude.

Take some responsability I didn't force you to type anything. It's not my fault that your typing style is abrassive, rude, presumptuous, and insidious.

Furthermore Complaining, or finding nothing positive to talk about isn't your fault? Then whos is it? How is it that anyone else MADE YOU complain about anything? It's your choice Lepaca not anyone elses.

Lastly I never derailed the discussion I told you I will talk about the substance which are Gods laws, their role in society, and what flaws if any can be found in them. Obviously I am not talking about Gods laws right now i am tottally off subject. So I am going to get back on subject now. What laws do you see that have flaws in them, why are they flaws, and how would you improve on them?

Edited October 18, 2006 by Observer of dreams

[followerofjesus]

Salvation through anamnesis.

[mrp1948]

Ok wasn't going to get into this one but where is the flaw in "THOU SHALT NOT STEAL"? "THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBORS WIFE"? Seems pretty concise and self explanitory to me. If someone would like to examine flawed laws talk with the lobbyests and special interest groups. One more thing if we allow the Government or anyone else to restrict or ban any groups religious freedom we have opened the door to doing the same to them all. Frankly groups such as the ACLU have done more to restrict personal freedoms than protect them. God Bless

[billie]

By suing people in an attempt to restrict them from putting religious symbols on their own personal property.

[SoulGrind]

Good, just making sure that you have your definitions straight on that. Too many people bugger up "Theory" as "Idea", when the word is not used like that in a scientific context.

You're right, then. God is an idea, and there is no way to disprove an idea.

I suppose your post makes sense, although I would say that you would not need God's Law to predict that a thief will steal again and steal more if he does not get punished. It only takes a basic understanding of psychology to realize that if a human does something to benefit him/herself, and does not face any consequences, (s)he will be reinforced for that behavior and will probably do it again.

What I find interesting here AAA, is that you refer to having "a basic understanding of psychology" as if the science of psychology (as we know it today) has been around for as long as man has been around - which is not the case.

What I think is even more interesting however, that a general observation of the human condition is recorded in the Biblical account, that just so happened to be written a few thousand years prior to our modern psychology.

Food for thought - nothing more

Edited October 20, 2006 by SoulGrind

[SoulGrind]

God is testable Lepaca..

Do what he says and see what happens.

"Taste and see that the Lord is good." Repent of your sins and desire to know Gods Ways....Follow after him...

God IS testable..Put his principles into action and see what happens..

Regards,

Ben.

I'm afraid that's not the way things are tested in science. The way testing is done is part of that big conspiracy against religion.

Lepaca,

Please explain to everyone, using "science" how you would test (and prove) that you love your family.

Edited October 20, 2006 by SoulGrind

[SoulGrind]

Noone is perfect not even Jesus.

The Bible states that Christ is perfect - His mission was not to make everyone perfect, His mission was to be presented as atonement for our sins so that through repentance and acceptance of Him, we would be welcome in the Kingdom of Heaven - at which time we shall be made perfect - AMEN!

"...Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

[Hebrews 4:14-15 - KJV]

The presence of sin dictates imperfection, and Christ was without sin.

P.S. - UPDATE: I just read Observer of Dreams followup post where he acknowledged his statement of "Noone is perfect not even Jesus" as a typo.

I just left this post here so everyone else could see what the Bible has to say about it.

Sorry Observer of Dreams.

Edited October 20, 2006 by SoulGrind

[Observer of dreams]

Correct soulgrind I made an apology a few posts back about that little diddy.

I think a lesson in Ethics is in order here, if only for a select few.

There is a theory out called "cultural relativism" This theory states that there is no universal right or wrong. It goes on to say that all moral values are different from culture to culture. Here is an example;

There was a Greek and a Callation talking amoungst each other and discussing their various traditions. During the conversation the Greek mentions that they cremate their dead, "Absolutly disgusting!" Says the Callation. "Well" Says the Greek "What are your practices for honoring the dead?" To which the Callation responds, "We devour them into us so that their spirit might be with us always." To which the Greek replies, "Absolutly disgusting!"

The problem with the theory of cultural relativism is that it is inductive, and it assumes that morals are based on beliefs rather than values. The Greek and the Callation both value the dead and seek to honor them, but their BELIEFS as to how to do it is what seperates them.

Also it is not to say that one of them was mistaken in the first place. For instance take that same argument but replace it with the Earth. The Callation thinks the Earth is round, yet the Greek thinks it's flat. We know that the Earth is round so the Greek must be mistaken in this case.

A further point. Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie. Take these 3 laws from the bible. if murdering was acceptable a society would not exsist for long, and if it did last noone would feel secure leaving their house, and they would most likey form their own "gangs" so they could be safe, but even in this gang killing then becomes unacceptable. You would also not be able to rely on anyone for anything if lying were acceptable. I couldn't even trust that someone gave me the right time if I asked, and Talking would become totally pointless. The same is true for stealing, at least as far as trusting those around us.

My point is that the laws of God are the rule not the exception. If there were no universal right or wrong then Hitler could say it was a good thing to kill jews and be correct, the south could say slavery was ok and be right, and noone could utter a word against Darfur because that would be acceptable as well. Not only that, but we also could not condemn our own moral code as a society because they would all be right as well. The rights of women and blacks being allowed to vote, homosexuals in the military, abolition of slavery. None of these would have happened had it not been for someone within our society holding himself/herself to a higher moral standard than that of the people around them.

[EDIT] This next part is for Lepaca, though I feel it is in vain but we shall see.

QUOTE(Observer of dreams @ Oct 18 2006, 08:54 AM) *

Hi Lepaca,

If your going to teach by pointing out fallacies then don't teach your biased ideology Lepaca. Teach something objectively.

I've done that in the past and I'll do it again. That's beside the point, though. You couldn't answer me and got angry.

How do you know I got angry? Just because you think it doesn't make it so. I am simply responding to you

If your aim is not to teach then your just trying to cut me down and I feel that is very rude.

Translated: when I say something wrong I don't want anyone to point out the flaw.

When you say translated it tells me your just turning what I said into something you would rather hear. Let me clarify

IF YOUR AIM IS NOT TO TEACH THEN YOUR JUST TRYING TO CUT ME DOWN AND I FEEL THAT IS VERY RUDE. I will listen to instruction, but I will not tolerate verbal abuse from anyone Lepaca. Nor will I tolerate closed minded ideologies about nothing, the best you can say is that you just don't know and there is nothing wrong with that.

Edited October 21, 2006 by Observer of dreams

[SoulGrind]

Correct soulgrind I made an apology a few posts back about that little diddy.

I think a lesson in Ethics is in order here, if only for a select few.

There is a theory out called "cultural relativism" This theory states that there is no universal right or wrong. It goes on to say that all moral values are different from culture to culture. Here is an example;

There was a Greek and a Callation talking amoungst each other and discussing their various traditions. During the conversation the Greek mentions that they cremate their dead, "Absolutly disgusting!" Says the Callation. "Well" Says the Greek "What are your practices for honoring the dead?" To which the Callation responds, "We devour them into us so that their spirit might be with us always." To which the Greek replies, "Absolutly disgusting!"

The problem with the theory of cultural relativism is that it is inductive, and it assumes that morals are based on beliefs rather than values. The Greek and the Callation both value the dead and seek to honor them, but their BELIEFS as to how to do it is what seperates them.

Also it is not to say that one of them was mistaken in the first place. For instance take that same argument but replace it with the Earth. The Callation thinks the Earth is round, yet the Greek thinks it's flat. We know that the Earth is round so the Greek must be mistaken in this case.

A further point. Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie. Take these 3 laws from the bible. if murdering was acceptable a society would not exsist for long, and if it did last noone would feel secure leaving their house, and they would most likey form their own "gangs" so they could be safe, but even in this gang killing then becomes unacceptable. You would also not be able to rely on anyone for anything if lying were acceptable. I couldn't even trust that someone gave me the right time if I asked, and Talking would become totally pointless. The same is true for stealing, at least as far as trusting those around us.

My point is that the laws of God are the rule not the exception. If there were no universal right or wrong then Hitler could say it was a good thing to kill jews and be correct, the south could say slavery was ok and be right, and noone could utter a word against Darfur because that would be acceptable as well. Not only that, but we also could not condemn our own moral code as a society because they would all be right as well. The rights of women and blacks being allowed to vote, homosexuals in the military, abolition of slavery. None of these would have happened had it not been for someone within our society holding himself/herself to a higher moral standard than that of the people around them.

Dude! Can I vote for you for President?