Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Guest dobos]

I BET HALF THE PEOPLE WHO RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION DONT REALLY KNOW THE ANSWER DO THEY?

Yes, once you see how JESUS removed SIN from the world ( through Baptism ) and Paid with his blood for those Sins. it is easy to say Yes to that question. Just as in the old testiment when the People of GOD confessed their sin to the High Priest. the High Priest would lay his hands on the sacrafice ( Lamb ) Head, and would Confess those sin and impart them to the Lamb. then the Lamb was killed and the Blood sprinkled to make atonement. so JESUS was Baptised by John , John being the High Priest at the Time of Jesus. John said to Jesus no. I need to be Baptised by you , and you come to me? and JESUS said. let it be so for now, for Thus we shall fulfill all rightousness. fullfilling all rightousness is removing Sin from all the world. from Adam to the last person borned into this world. ALL SIN. for as meny as believe, the same shall be saved. We all have Sin in us and we all sin every day. so we have a problem as Christians, we can't get into the Kingdom of GOD if we have any sin. and remember you can Sin in your sleep. it is impossable to ask for forgiveness continually so JESUS became our Lamb ( The Lamb of GOD ) the next day after JESUS was Baptised by John, John seen JESUS coming and said "Behold the Lamb of GOD who takes away the Sin of the World " JESUS had already recieved the SIN of the wrold onto himself, yet JESUS had no SIN of his own. because the Lamb ( JESUS ) was without spot or blemish. our work is to walk humble with GOD, do justly with our fellow man, and Love Mercy. that is what GOD expects from us. JESUS told us to tell everyone to come to JESUS. that is our work. Paul

[Renaa]

No I do not believe OSAS....There are just to many warnings in God's word about turning our backs on Him and what will happen if we do. If the teaching OSAS was biblical God would not have needed to warn us.

(John 15:6 NIV) If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

(Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV) [26] If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, [27] but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

You can't claim salvation through faith in Jesus Christ and live like the world. If you do then you are part of the world and have no part in Christ. I am not saying that a Christian will never stumble and fall into sin, but their life will not be characterized by sin, or they are not a Christian.

(James 4:4 NIV) You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Look very closely at this passage from James. First it shows choice; "anyone who chooses..." Then it says "becomes an enemy of God." Those two statements are vitally important. Sinners (non-believers) do not choose to be friends with the world, they are the world. Next, sinners (non-believers) do not become enemies of God, they were born enemies of God, just like all us of were. So what is James saying? He is saying that if you are a Christian yet you choose to be friends with the world, meaning to indulge in the sins of the world and live as the world, then you become an enemy of God. He is referring to people who choose to follow the world instead of following Christ. Don't let people fool you about this, you can't walk away from Christ and still retain your position in heaven.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Renaa

[Thaddaeus]

Renaa,

Thank God that some do understand Scriptures. They understand that our relationship is a mutual one. Those that support OSAS actually think that God somehow bends to their whims and that a simple belief, the kind that James accords to the devil will actually save an individual. It is MAN that must conform to the will of God. God does not conform to the will of man. We are not free to do just whatever we like and think that He will honor a mutual contract. That is what a covenant means. It is not a one-way event.

We are saved through faith. I have asked many a proponent of OSAS to show that we can be saved through unbelief. Not a single one says that one can. Yet, only two books in the entire NT does not address the danger, the real possibility that a believer can lose faith. The Bible gives several examples, all are ignored by the proponents of OSAS. There are so many texts that address that possibility that I might as well suggest you reread the NT. It would take you several hours just to read the citations I could give on losing faith.

[larryt]

Larryt,

Your reasoning is the "wisdom of man" and not the Word of God. What you said to me is:

This verse does not fit my theology and therefore must mean something else.

Back up your statement with scripture.

The statement by John that "we cannot sin" has to do with the new birth/new creation in Christ Jesus. Check the context of chapter 3. We shall be like Him. You show me that you do not understand the new birth, being born again from above, bing a NEW CREATURE/CREATION in Christ.

When you say it is from the wisdom of men, you are correct. It is the wisdom of the inspired writers who wrote in Greek.

Big difference, as the scriptures point out.

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Co 1:20 Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

It has been explained in the Greek for centuries. We have had no difficulty in translating that understanding. However, the word of God does not speak except through those that attempt to interpret it on their own which is what most do. That makes is man-made and not from scripture.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. The verse is pretty plain to me though.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

It says that we cannot sin. Now this is a paradox. Do you know what a paradox is?

---- a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that may in fact be true.

For me, if the plain sense makes sense, make no other sense.

What you say is your theology. But if you are attempting to understand it as it has been understood for 2000 years, then it does not fit that understanding. I understand fully the new birth as is has been understood in Christianity since the beginning.

I have experienced the new birth. I am a new creature/creation in Christ Jesus.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

The Holy Spirit came into me and changed me. I don't need to understand it as it has been understood for 2000 yrs. because you don't know how it has been understood for 2000 yrs. Were you around 2000 yrs ago to see and hear what was said. I have the Word of God today and I have the Holy Spirit in me teaching me all things.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I understand the new birth as do all believers since Abel. God had to CREATE a new person because the old man could never live the way God intended. We have to be born Again.

Can you show any scripture to support your view which you have not done yet. What I do not understand is your understanding of the new birth.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mt 9:16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.

17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Ro 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Ro 8:10

[exrockstar]

Renaa,

Thank God that some do understand Scriptures. They understand that our relationship is a mutual one. Those that support OSAS actually think that God somehow bends to their whims and that a simple belief, the kind that James accords to the devil will actually save an individual. It is MAN that must conform to the will of God. God does not conform to the will of man. We are not free to do just whatever we like and think that He will honor a mutual contract. That is what a covenant means. It is not a one-way event.

We are saved through faith. I have asked many a proponent of OSAS to show that we can be saved through unbelief. Not a single one says that one can. Yet, only two books in the entire NT does not address the danger, the real possibility that a believer can lose faith. The Bible gives several examples, all are ignored by the proponents of OSAS. There are so many texts that address that possibility that I might as well suggest you reread the NT. It would take you several hours just to read the citations I could give on losing faith.

youre pretty much going back to the Old Testament way of thinking.

Jews had to sacrfice, etc. to show a "mutual relationship...."

this is what Paul pleads to all the Jews in most of the epistles about not going back to.

you may not be sacrficing animals at the temple but you sure are supporting that the relationship is a two-way street.

it is backtracking and these supporters of works were called Judaizers.

[Renaa]

Renaa,

Thank God that some do understand Scriptures. They understand that our relationship is a mutual one. Those that support OSAS actually think that God somehow bends to their whims and that a simple belief, the kind that James accords to the devil will actually save an individual. It is MAN that must conform to the will of God. God does not conform to the will of man. We are not free to do just whatever we like and think that He will honor a mutual contract. That is what a covenant means. It is not a one-way event.

We are saved through faith. I have asked many a proponent of OSAS to show that we can be saved through unbelief. Not a single one says that one can. Yet, only two books in the entire NT does not address the danger, the real possibility that a believer can lose faith. The Bible gives several examples, all are ignored by the proponents of OSAS. There are so many texts that address that possibility that I might as well suggest you reread the NT. It would take you several hours just to read the citations I could give on losing faith.

youre pretty much going back to the Old Testament way of thinking.

Jews had to sacrfice, etc. to show a "mutual relationship...."

this is what Paul pleads to all the Jews in most of the epistles about not going back to.

you may not be sacrficing animals at the temple but you sure are supporting that the relationship is a two-way street.

it is backtracking and these supporters of works were called Judaizers.

[Renaa]

Losing versus Forfeiting

The issue is the confusion over "losing" salvation versus forfeiting salvation. As we will see as we examine the verses that have been used to "prove unconditional security", these verses say exactly what they mean, that there is literally nothing that can separate us from the love of God and there is no one who can snatch us out of the Father's hand. In terms of things - neither death nor life, nor present nor future, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation. In terms of other beings, not Satan, not another person or an angelic being - no OTHER being can take us out of the father's hand. However, none of these things or other beings Scripturally or logically preclude a believer choosing to fall away (which is man's perspective) from the Lord and thereby fall away (God's perspective) from Him (Luke 8:13)! scripture teaches that the only one who can forfeit salvation, by definition, is the person who possess it (John 15:1-6; Luke 8:13; Luke 12:10; Heb. 3:12&19; Heb. 10:26&29; 2 Pet. 2:20-21). No one or nothing can force the believer to lose his salvation.

God will never ever stop loving us, but there are many who have turned from God and continued on in sin and stopped loving God, it would have been better if they had never been saved.

Scripture says no one who puts his hands to the plow and looks back is fit for the Kingdom of God.

God Bless

[Guest dobos]

Renaa,

Thank God that some do understand Scriptures. They understand that our relationship is a mutual one. Those that support OSAS actually think that God somehow bends to their whims and that a simple belief, the kind that James accords to the devil will actually save an individual. It is MAN that must conform to the will of God. God does not conform to the will of man. We are not free to do just whatever we like and think that He will honor a mutual contract. That is what a covenant means. It is not a one-way event.

We are saved through faith. I have asked many a proponent of OSAS to show that we can be saved through unbelief. Not a single one says that one can. Yet, only two books in the entire NT does not address the danger, the real possibility that a believer can lose faith. The Bible gives several examples, all are ignored by the proponents of OSAS. There are so many texts that address that possibility that I might as well suggest you reread the NT. It would take you several hours just to read the citations I could give on losing faith.

youre pretty much going back to the Old Testament way of thinking.

Jews had to sacrfice, etc. to show a "mutual relationship...."

this is what Paul pleads to all the Jews in most of the epistles about not going back to.

you may not be sacrficing animals at the temple but you sure are supporting that the relationship is a two-way street.

it is backtracking and these supporters of works were called Judaizers.

Wow, where do I begin ?

Why was JESUS, who is GOD, baptized by John the baptist ? was it to show His humility ? Was it to proclaim Himself the Messiah ? NO, it wasn't. When JESUS was baptized by John the Baptist, by means of " ths laying on of hands" ( Leviticus 16:21 ). it was " One Man's rightous act " ( Romans 5:18 ) which took away the Sins of humankind.

in the Old Testament, GOD gave Israel the Merciful law of redemption. This was so that on the Day of Atonement, all the sins of Israel for that year could be expiated through the High Priest, Aaron, By lating his hands on the head of the " scapegoat" and passing all the sins onto that scapegoat. These were the words of revelation, which foretold the sacrifice of eternal atonement. it revealed the Truth that all the sins of humanity would be passed onto JESUS all at once, Who came in the flesh of a man, according to the will of the Father. And He was baptized by John the Baptist who was the descendent of Aaron and the representative of all humankind. When JESUS was baptized, He said to John " Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness " ( Matthew 3:15 ). Here, " for thus " means " by the laying on of hands', in order to pass all the sins of the world onto JESUS, so that all righteousness might be fulfilled for all of us. The word " righteousness " is " dikaiosune " in Greek. and is't meaning is " the fairest state " or " to be just in charactor or deeds with the implication of being righteous or fitting"

JESUS had fulfilled all righteousness for all people through His baptism in a just and fitting manner. Because JESUS took on all the sins of the people through His baptism, the next day, John the Baptist testified, " Behold! The Lamb of GOD who takes away the sin of the world! " ( John 1:29 ) With all the sins of humankind on His shoulders, JESUS walked toward the Cross. He vicariously took the judgment for all the sins He had taken on himself through His baptism. He died on the Cross, saying " It is finished" ( John 19:30 ). He took all our sins onto Himself and received the complete judgment for them in our place.

Therefore, without having " the faith in the baptism of JESUS" we cannot be saved. That is why the Apostle Peter declared the water, which means the bapism of JESUS, to be " an antitype which now saves us" (1 Peter 3:21)

We cannot be redeemed before GOD just by believing in JESUS' death on thr Cross.

When the people of Israel offered the sacrifice of atonement at the time of the Old Testament, it would not have been correct to kill the sacrifical animal without first laying hands on the head of the animal and passing their sins onto it. Thus, it would be wrong and lawless to believe only in the Cross of JESUS without believing in His baptism. Therefore, the Apostle Peter said " There is an antitype which now saves us, baptism, through the resurrection of JESUS Christ" ( 1 Peter 3:21)

The Apostle John said that correct faith is to believe in " the witness of the Spirit, the Water, and the Blood" ( 1 John 5:8 )

YES, Sin was removed all at once by JESUS, through His works.

what constitutes true faith is to believe like this. " JESUS is GOD Himself and He came in the flash of a man by the Spirit through the body of the Vitgin Mary, and He took away all the sins if the world by being baptized at the Jordan by John the Baptist, the representative of all humankind. And JESUS went to the Cross bearing all the sins of the world, and received the vicarious judgment for all of us." Therefore, the gospel cannot be complete without " the baptism of JESUS," the Water" and no mater how well we believe in JESUS, we can never reach eternal salvation without believing in it Paul.

[exrockstar]

"Because JESUS took on all the sins of the people through His baptism, the next day, John the Baptist testified, " Behold! The Lamb of GOD who takes away the sin of the world! "

what? i dont think many people will agree with you and this comment.

this has nothing to do with OSAS or not.

[Thaddaeus]

exrockstar,

youre pretty much going back to the Old Testament way of thinking.

Jews had to sacrfice, etc. to show a "mutual relationship...."

this is what Paul pleads to all the Jews in most of the epistles about not going back to.

you may not be sacrficing animals at the temple but you sure are supporting that the relationship is a two-way street.

it is backtracking and these supporters of works were called Judaizers.

Quite the contrary. It actually goes back to the creation of man. But the OT was not about being saved by works either. That was the misunderstanding of many of the Jews as well. It has always been by faith and Paul gives us a whole list of persons saved through their faith in Hebrews.

Your misunderstanding comes from the fact that all of mankind was saved, an accomplished fact, by Christ on the Cross. He restored mankind back to the rightful place, which is what redemption, justification, reconciliation, made righteous means. That rightful place was to be eternal and with the free choice of chosing whether we would be in union. Once in union it becomes man's obligation to be faithful. We are not to be another Adam and become unfaithful. The saving of our souls is not linked to Christ's Work on the Cross as much as it is linked to the purpose and creation of man. It is what we fell from due to the fall. Christ corrected the fall, so that man could fulfil his created purpose. The work we do is not merit, but an obligation God imposes on us as His creatures. Creatures for which He wanted communion but He also wanted it freely given. What is love if forced?

Those who do not align their wills with God's will suffer the consequences of that rejection. They are rejecting the purpose of their existance.