Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[Ovedya]

Hebrews ch 6 v4 :

For it is impossible (to restore and bring again to repentance) those who have been once and for all enlightened, who have consciously tasted the heavenly gift(Salvation) and have become sharers of the Holy Spirit, v5: And have felt how Good the Word of God is and the Mighty Powers of the world to come v6: if they then DEVIATE from the Faith and TURN AWAY from their allegiance (it is impossible)to bring them back to repentance, for they nail upon the cross the Son of God afresh and are holding(Him) up to contempt and shame and public disgrace.

V8:

But if (that same soil) persistently bears thorns and thistles(not fruit), it is considered WORTHLESS and near to being CURSED, WHOSE END IS TO BE BURNED. (John 15 v 6)

From the Amplified Bible

Backsliders usually get back on track but to have once Believed then choose to reject is FATAL, concerning Salvation.

Bad interpretation.

[billie]

Isn't that addressing those under the law?

[Guest Daave]

Even those who think dirty immoral sexual thoghts are worthy of eternal damnation because its in their hearts. No acceptions. Jesus was quite clear on this.

Dan

Then we're all doomed.

Shownuf

Daave

[jamie]

Some OSAS proponents argue that a saved person can live no differently than the world and still be saved, even if they die in their sins.

This is a common fallacy. It's never been proven that a single orthodox group teaches this kind of thing.

Lots of churches teach grace only, and pretty much the same thing. They just know how to package it in a way that makes it more swallowable. The baptist church I used to attend off and on as a kid used to teach it in a more round about way.

You could see the fruits of such teaching throughout the congregation.

I can wait until you can provide an actual example.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

1 Tim 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils...

Ovedya, I believe you know these things are happening, you are being hard headed.

[billie]

Isn't that addressing those under the law?

I figured someone would ask that, which is why I also posted the verses from Hebrews to go with it. I reposted both for your consideration.

Thanks.

[Guest Daave]

Here for your consideration are those scriptures that back up my contention that if a man live for the Lord 60 years, and then die while committing wilful sin, he will wind up in hell. Ovedya says that position is calling God a liar, so I will leave it up to the reader to decide if that is the case.

Ezekiel 33:11-20

11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousness shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.

14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;

15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.

16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.

18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.

19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

A man could serve the Lord faithfully for 60 years and through one act of sin, forfeit his salvation. At the same time, a man could live like the devil for 60 years, and then repent, immediately drop dead, and gain eternal life. You are basing your argument on the idea the man was faithful for 60 years, but I'll bet you have no problem accepting a death bed confession. By human reasoning, either of these two scenerios is unfair, but God's ways are higher than man's ways. It is not enough to get in the race, but we must finish it to obtain the prize. These scriptures are in the Old Testament, but notice what is said in Hebrews 10-26-31

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgement, and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses law, died without mercy, under two or three witnesses.

29 Of how much sorer punishment suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath troden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompence, saith the Lord: and again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The sin referred to in Ezekiel and in Hebrews is the same in essance.

Ezekiel 33:13 qualifies the sin being discussed, "if he trust to his own righteousness," is the sin.

In Hebrews, the sin that is being referred to is the sin of unbelief in Chirst and returning to faith in the sacrifical system, i.e. a righteousness of their own.

So yes, if we choose our own righteousness over that provided by Christ Jesus, there is no more sacrifice for sin.

[Guest lnj]

Bad interpretation.

Tell that to God buddy, not me.

[Guest lnj]

NKJV notes on Hebrews 6 v 4 - 6 state -

The language of vv4 and 5 clearly describes those who have experienced the saving Grace of God, and the language of v 6 denotes a complete disowning of Christ, a deliberate and decisive abandonment of the Christian Faith. The people described ARE NOT BACKSLIDERS but APOSTATES. They have not merely fallen into sin but have denounced Christ. They have BECOME as those who crucified Jesus.

CH 6 v 7,8: The illustration depicts the condemnation of those who turn away from Jesus.

Backslide/er: To relapse into error or sin.

Relapse: To fall or slip back into a former state, practice etc.

Apostate: a person who makes a TOTAL departure or desertion from one's Religion, principles or belief system.

[Guest lnj]

Bad interpretation.

Tell that to God buddy, not me.

Ovedya, we may have opposing views on issues but there was no need for me to answer your reply to me like that. I'm sorry..no hard feelings.

[TomPJr]

Isn't that addressing those under the law?

Who is not under the law?

We are all under the law unless you live a sinless life.

We don't have to remain under the penalty of the law, but we are obligated to obey it.

The only time that we are not under the law is when by nature, we keep the law, and so it doesn't apply to us.

example: The law says thou shall not murder.....well I don't murder, naver have, and never will...(I don't do it by nature, not because the law says not to....so I am not under that law...it doesn't restrict me.)

The same is for any law... I don't commit adultery because I love my wife, not because the law says not to....so I am not under that law either...