Guest Greg Davies Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 One doesn't lose their salvation because of "dead works." One loses their salvation because of wilful sins, as has been discussed in Hebrews 10:26. The initial blood atonement only washes one clean of past sins, and unintentional sins committed after salvation. It does not automatically cover wilful transgressions, and no unclean thing will enter heaven. Heb 10:26 is a very sobering scripture and I think it is detailed in Heb 6:4-6. This an excellent point. But how do you harmonize this truth with I Cor 3:15 and I Pet 1:23 among other scriptures without making the differentiation between the spirit and the soul? What does incorruptible mean? Is it possible that there are eternal realms other than hell and the lake of fire (where the "never saved" go) and the Kingdom of God, ruling and reigning with Christ (where the overcomers are rewarded)? Who goes to outer darkness? What does 30, 60, and 100 fold mean? Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Greetings in the Precious name of our Lord and Savior JESUS the Christ Emmanuel Once saved always saved - never in a million years Everyday we have to work harder at our faith, because a new day brings new challengers, and new ways that we experience the grace of our Savior JESUS. Everyday our faith is tested, and not everyone makes it. Even Moses asked father God to remove his name from the book. I completely agree, and not only that, but God told Moses he would remove the names of those who sinned from his book. What a busy day y'all and Jesus must have! You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... Whew! Hope ya don't sin and get hit by a truck before you get saved again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Greetings in the Precious name of our Lord and Savior JESUS the Christ Emmanuel Once saved always saved - never in a million years Everyday we have to work harder at our faith, because a new day brings new challengers, and new ways that we experience the grace of our Savior JESUS. Everyday our faith is tested, and not everyone makes it. Even Moses asked father God to remove his name from the book. I completely agree, and not only that, but God told Moses he would remove the names of those who sinned from his book. What a busy day y'all and Jesus must have! You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... You sin, you lose your salvation, you get saved again... Whew! Hope ya don't sin and get hit by a truck before you get saved again! Me too. If someone does commit a wilful sin and dies in the act of committing it before they repent, I believe they will wind up in hell. Nothing with spot on it will enter heaven, and such sins are not under the blood. Do you have any alternative meanings for the scriptures being discussed, or just the sarcastic humor? Mostly just sarcastic humor today.... BUT, when Jesus died on the cross, you hadn't even been born yet. He died for your past, present, and future sins. I would doubt the salvation of anyone who continually, willfully sins...only because it would seem that they never truly repented to begin with. You will NEVER be without sin in your mortal life. Paul even called his sinful self a "body of death" because he could NOT stop doing evil things. "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Romans 7:17-25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAINIE Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 7 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/11/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 why do you want to know?? what do you think? if you told me what you thought i'd be more likely to respond.... are you really seeking the truth or just trying to stir up people??? rainie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kari21 Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 140 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,846 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/05/1987 Share Posted August 17, 2007 There is a difference between wilful sins and unintentional ones. Let me give you an example. I get up in the morning, stump my toe, and say a curse word, maybe even use the Lord's name in vain. That was not pre-meditated or wilful. There was no thought given at the time. Later on, I go into my local store and see an item I want but cannot afford. I think about it, and know God would be displeased, but I decide to steal it. That is a wilful sin, and is not under the blood covering. To get right with God, I would have to repent. Not everyone commits wilful sins, and certainly not every day. Yet, we still must wrestle with a sinful nature - even to a point where we do willfully sin. The Bible says it is a sin to lie....but if someone was looking to kill a loved one and demanded you say where he/she was, would you tell the truth? Or if you lived in North Korea and your family was starving and you stole food so that they could live...would THOSE willful sins merit hell? Or is there NO gray area with God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 exrockstar, the reward is Christ? my oh my....there are plenty of non-Christians that do better works that will receive the reward of Christ before you then. so, not only does one not need Christ, but now you also say, that faith is not required? Just what is it that you think saves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 (edited) Butero, In reality, there are scriptures used by both sides that supposedly "prove" they are correct. I found out a long time ago there was no way I was going to change the mind of a die hard Baptist, but you haven't come to the realization that you are not going to change the mind of someone who is convinced you are wrong, because both sides have arguments based in scripture. A very astute statement. It is the continual problem of most protestants who are using the method of "sola scriptura". One should realize that all theories, all suppositions, ideas of what scripture might mean is based on scripture. Thus you have an anomaly that both Truth and falsehoods are all scriptural. To put this is a much clearer light, Mormonism is based on scripture as much as any other theory that has come down the road. That is precisely why you will never show who is correct, because it is always based on one man's subjective opinion. It really has nothing to do with what Scripture actually means and has meant since it was given. Edited August 17, 2007 by Thaddaeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exrockstar Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,673 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 111 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 exrockstar, the reward is Christ? my oh my....there are plenty of non-Christians that do better works that will receive the reward of Christ before you then. so, not only does one not need Christ, but now you also say, that faith is not required? Just what is it that you think saves? accept what Christ did on the cross is what i believe. plain and simple. You believe, your faith relies on your own personal performance. thats why we're different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddaeus Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 375 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/21/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2007 exrockstar, accept what Christ did on the cross is what i believe. plain and simple. You believe, your faith relies on your own personal performance. thats why we're different. But what Christ did on the Cross was for mankind. This puts you squarely into the Universalist camp. Christ did nothing on the Cross that would directly save your soul. He simply made it possible for man to once again join with God which was precluded by the fall. Man was restored to the condition, opportunity he had before the fall. I explained this to you a long time ago. Your view has Christ saving you from being created in His Image, to have God do for you what you were created to do. No place in scripture does God ever say that He changed the purpose of our existance. You have an unscriptural position, that is why we are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted August 17, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Cardcaptor said; "God's commandment to mankind is to abstain from sin. We know that a sin is transgression of the law of Christ. When we are born again we have all of our past sins washed away and now have help through God, Christ, and the HS to resist temptation and not sin any more. Being that we are in the flesh we will still sin. What God in the scriptures is trying to tell is is that if we do happen to sin all we need to do is confess our faults ask forgiveness and we will receive it. What we are trying to establish here is that if we continue in sin not wanting to repent we will lose our salvation. I have posted these scriptures many times and it seems that people just ignore them, but look at what these say - Ephesians 5:3-5 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. These verses are saying that AFTER we have become Christians and we have these sins in our lives we will NOT inherit heaven. I think what people need to realize is that nobody alive has received the promise of salvation yet. We receive IF and only IF we die righteously. We are told to be faithful till death." Cardcaptor, Again, you have captured nicely the truth of the scriptures. Kari to you I say; we are commanded to be a light unto the world that is in darkness (Sin), leading them out of the darkness into the perfect light which is Christ. How can we do this if we are living in the same darkness. Better yet everyone could just go out and say a quick prayer for Hell insurance, then go out and live like the devil. Sorry that type of interpetation doesn't agree with the scriputure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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