Divorce And The Bible.

[Guest LadyC]

you talked all around the bush but didn't answer a single one of my questions. so now i have a few more for you. do you believe in the triune nature of God? that Jesus IS God? and back to one of my original questions, do you believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable for doctrine, correction and reproof? do you believe that Jesus is the living word of God?

do you believe that paul/saul were spiritually one and the same? i ask that one because you refer to paul as a persecuter of christians, when he wasn't. saul was. saul and paul may have inhabited the same body, but when saul repented and dedicated his life to the service of the Lord, he became a new creature in Christ, and unlike the rest of us, he got a new name to go with it.

you are skirting the issue and also trying to drag this thread off topic to further a homosexual agenda. bottom line, all scripture is the inspired word of God, and Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word of God, and thus everything that is written in scripture by any of the biblical authors is ordained by Jesus. we have not denied that divorce is a sinful act. you are denying that homosexuality is a sinful act.

but ALL sinners can be forgiven, if they repent. and God's grace extends to the sinner who committed divorce just as surely as it extends to the sinner who committed a homosexual act. but forgiveness only comes with repentance.

[anti-hillbilly]

you talked all around the bush but didn't answer a single one of my questions. so now i have a few more for you. do you believe in the triune nature of God? that Jesus IS God? and back to one of my original questions, do you believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable for doctrine, correction and reproof? do you believe that Jesus is the living word of God?

do you believe that paul/saul were spiritually one and the same? i ask that one because you refer to paul as a persecuter of christians, when he wasn't. saul was. saul and paul may have inhabited the same body, but when saul repented and dedicated his life to the service of the Lord, he became a new creature in Christ, and unlike the rest of us, he got a new name to go with it.

you are skirting the issue and also trying to drag this thread off topic to further a homosexual agenda. bottom line, all scripture is the inspired word of God, and Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word of God, and thus everything that is written in scripture by any of the biblical authors is ordained by Jesus. we have not denied that divorce is a sinful act. you are denying that homosexuality is a sinful act.

but ALL sinners can be forgiven, if they repent. and God's grace extends to the sinner who committed divorce just as surely as it extends to the sinner who committed a homosexual act. but forgiveness only comes with repentance.

I'm not trying to drag anything off topic despite the accusation....... but let's get back to the topic of divorce.

No I do not believe all of the bible is inspired by God. Evidently you don't either because you say you do, you say: all scripture is the inspired word of God, and Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word of God, and thus everything that is written in scripture by any of the biblical authors is ordained by Jesus., yet you are the one who is attempting to "skirt" around the divorce verses so you can justify your own divorce and remarriage. According to the bible if you have an unscriptural divorce and remarry you are in a continuous state of adultery; it's says you're forgiven if you repent and sin no more. There's no difference between you and I repenting yet staying in our current marriages and a homosexual that repents yet continues to remain in a homosexual relationship instead of becoming celibate. NO DIFFERENCE. The difference between you and I is that I will be truthful about it and not try to make excuses around it.

Do I think I'm going to hell for being remarried; no I don't, and neither do you. Does our opinion on this disagree with scripture...of course it does. I'm just willing to face up to it and admit it (even though I don't like it) whereas you are not willing to do that preferring instead to hold others feet to the fire but leave an "out" for yourself.

Triune God -- There a Father, a Son and a Holy Ghost, I do not believe in the triune God (3 in one) that the Catholic church voted into existence at the Council of Nicea.

I don't trust Paul 100%. I always reread the words of Jesus whenever I've read words by Paul. According to the Bible Paul did persecute Christians before he became one.

Cobalt -- It's none of your business why I got a divorce. I don't intend to detail my dirty laundry here; this isn't the place to write a book. What's done is done and was done decades ago as far as that goes; however, that does not change scripture. I can read, I know what it says. I also think very few people really, truly believe the bible where the scriptures concerning divorce are concerned for obvious reasons, there are grey areas in real life that are not covered in the divorce scriptures. There's no mention of wife beating, and as for the adultery exemption, how many people would even know for sure, most adulterers aren't going to "fess-up" but will deny, deny, deny if confronted. That's just 2 grey areas.

Edited October 16, 2006 by anti-hillbilly

[Guest LadyC]

Jesus Christ was very explicit and to the point about divorce. No, ifs, ands, or buts. We divorced people like to say, but, but, but.

No I do not put Paul in the same category as Jesus. Paul persecuted Christians and wasn't one of the original 12 apostles. Jesus ALWAYS comes before Paul, ALWAYS. I just find it curious that people are so eager to try and find a way around the divorce scriptures attributed to Jesus but refuse to attempt the same feat when it concerns homosexuals that Paul (the unmarried apostle) talked about. I also find it odd that this sin that Paul refers to as an abomination isn't even mentioned by Jesus. My conclusion is that Jesus was much more concerned about divorce since he actually had a lot to say about it. I also have noticed that other church going divorcees talk a lot about the sin of homosexuality (more than those who have only been married once). It almost seems like they're trying to point fingers at that sin so people won't notice the divorce thing that we're guilty of.

I try not to do this because I don't have any room to talk about somebody else's sin when according to the bible I'm in a continuous state of adultery myself, being in a second marriage. A person shouldn't throw stones when their own house is made of glass as the saying goes. Whenever I hear someone talk about the sin of homosexuality I immediately think of my own sin of divorce. I guess that's why I mentioned it when I came across this thread.

I'll leave it to those who've never been divorced to talk about the sin of homosexuality; unlike me, they have the high ground from which to do so.

Ok, you knew it was wrong, then why did you get divorced in the first place? Jesus talked no more about divorce than He did any other social issue. Even then, He was only answering a question given to Him by the Pharisees trying to trap Him. He mentions divorce twice. It simply seems like He talks about it more because we have the same instances relayed in both Matthew and Mark, two of the three synoptic gospels. Your not commiting adultery now, unless you are not married, or unless you have neglected to ask forgiveness for the divorce. If you are born-again, why do you want to tell yourself every day that you are living in sin?

gotta add to what you said with yet another question. (boy, i'm full of questions i want answered!)

if remarriage is an abomination in the eyes of God, and you feel you're living in continuous adultry, do you consider yourself to be saved? because God says that adulterers, fornicators, and homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

of course that means all unrepentant adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, and other sinners who do not repent and continue to live in their sin.

have you ever repented to God and asked His forgiveness for your divorce? and if you have, then do you believe that His grace is not sufficient to cover your sin? do you believe that when God said that He will remember your sin no more, that He was talking to everyone but you?

finally... last question... i really hope you'll take the time to answer some of these for me. but not just for me, more importantly, for yourself! why do you allow satan to have control of your thoughts? that is what you are doing by believing in the persecution that he is throwing at you every second of the day. stop giving satan the glory and give it to GOD. if you've asked forgiveness, you have recieved it.

[anti-hillbilly]

Jesus Christ was very explicit and to the point about divorce. No, ifs, ands, or buts. We divorced people like to say, but, but, but.

No I do not put Paul in the same category as Jesus. Paul persecuted Christians and wasn't one of the original 12 apostles. Jesus ALWAYS comes before Paul, ALWAYS. I just find it curious that people are so eager to try and find a way around the divorce scriptures attributed to Jesus but refuse to attempt the same feat when it concerns homosexuals that Paul (the unmarried apostle) talked about. I also find it odd that this sin that Paul refers to as an abomination isn't even mentioned by Jesus. My conclusion is that Jesus was much more concerned about divorce since he actually had a lot to say about it. I also have noticed that other church going divorcees talk a lot about the sin of homosexuality (more than those who have only been married once). It almost seems like they're trying to point fingers at that sin so people won't notice the divorce thing that we're guilty of.

I try not to do this because I don't have any room to talk about somebody else's sin when according to the bible I'm in a continuous state of adultery myself, being in a second marriage. A person shouldn't throw stones when their own house is made of glass as the saying goes. Whenever I hear someone talk about the sin of homosexuality I immediately think of my own sin of divorce. I guess that's why I mentioned it when I came across this thread.

I'll leave it to those who've never been divorced to talk about the sin of homosexuality; unlike me, they have the high ground from which to do so.

Ok, you knew it was wrong, then why did you get divorced in the first place? Jesus talked no more about divorce than He did any other social issue. Even then, He was only answering a question given to Him by the Pharisees trying to trap Him. He mentions divorce twice. It simply seems like He talks about it more because we have the same instances relayed in both Matthew and Mark, two of the three synoptic gospels. Your not commiting adultery now, unless you are not married, or unless you have neglected to ask forgiveness for the divorce. If you are born-again, why do you want to tell yourself every day that you are living in sin?

gotta add to what you said with yet another question. (boy, i'm full of questions i want answered!)

if remarriage is an abomination in the eyes of God, and you feel you're living in continuous adultry, do you consider yourself to be saved? because God says that adulterers, fornicators, and homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

of course that means all unrepentant adulterers, fornicators, homosexuals, and other sinners who do not repent and continue to live in their sin.

have you ever repented to God and asked His forgiveness for your divorce? and if you have, then do you believe that His grace is not sufficient to cover your sin? do you believe that when God said that He will remember your sin no more, that He was talking to everyone but you?

finally... last question... i really hope you'll take the time to answer some of these for me. but not just for me, more importantly, for yourself! why do you allow satan to have control of your thoughts? that is what you are doing by believing in the persecution that he is throwing at you every second of the day. stop giving satan the glory and give it to GOD. if you've asked forgiveness, you have recieved it.

No I don't believe I'm living in a continuous state of adultery even though a few ministers have told me and my husband that we are.

Perhaps you should sincerely ask yourself these questions (since you say each and every word is a divine revelation) and also ask yourself if Satan has gotten ahold of your thoughts since you're the one who says you believe every word is divine yet make excuses. It does say repent and sin no more, it doesn't just say repent and leave it at that.

Of course I always ask God to forgive me of all my sins, both those I know I've committed and those I may have committed without knowning. -- LadyC your last post is actually a bit insulting and condescending even if you didn't mean it that way. I have enough sense to pray and ask for forgiveness. I was taught that from a very early age just like you I'm sure.

[anti-hillbilly]

Cobalt -- It's none of your business why I got a divorce. I don't intend to detail my dirty laundry here; this isn't the place to write a book. What's done is done and was done decades ago as far as that goes; however, that does not change scripture. I can read, I know what it says. I also think very few people really, truly believe the bible where the scriptures concerning divorce are concerned for obvious reasons, there are grey areas in real life that are not covered in the divorce scriptures. There's no mention of wife beating, and as for the adultery exemption, how many people would even know for sure, most adulterers aren't going to "fess-up" but will deny, deny, deny if confronted. That's just 2 grey areas.

I don't really care why you got divorced, and I don't really want to know. That wasn't my point in asking, the question was rhetorical. Also, I was not hateful with you, but you got hateful and defensive with me in a big hurry, didn't you?

If you say you cannot trust what Paul says as the divinely-inspired word of God, then you had better throw your bible in the trash. You say you only trust what Jesus says, but everything relayed to us about Jesus is being told to us by other divinely-inspired authors, just like Paul. Every book of the bible is divinely inspired, or to quote 2 Timothy: 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I'm unclear as to why you want to punish yourself for your divorce, and judge everyone else that has been divorced, but it seems as if you do not have a good and clear concept of Christ's redeeming grace and what it means.

You think I should throw my bible in the trash?

I give more weight to Jesus' words but of course those could have been tampered with too I guess; you kind of point that out. The Catholic Church did have the time to mess with it I guess but the bible we have now is the best we're gonna get at this late date. -- If you read closely it appears that those writings by Paul are 'different' than the writings that are attributed to Jesus. Paul is much more "stern" and unforgiving imo except of course where divorce is concerned....gosh darn it. Oddly enough it seems like Jesus is more harsh about the subject of divorce than Paul. Very disconcerting.

I'm not judging other divorcees I'm just attempting to point out the hypocrisy that's going on out here.

Edited October 16, 2006 by anti-hillbilly

[Guest LadyC]

you talked all around the bush but didn't answer a single one of my questions. so now i have a few more for you. do you believe in the triune nature of God? that Jesus IS God? and back to one of my original questions, do you believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable for doctrine, correction and reproof? do you believe that Jesus is the living word of God?

do you believe that paul/saul were spiritually one and the same? i ask that one because you refer to paul as a persecuter of christians, when he wasn't. saul was. saul and paul may have inhabited the same body, but when saul repented and dedicated his life to the service of the Lord, he became a new creature in Christ, and unlike the rest of us, he got a new name to go with it.

you are skirting the issue and also trying to drag this thread off topic to further a homosexual agenda. bottom line, all scripture is the inspired word of God, and Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word of God, and thus everything that is written in scripture by any of the biblical authors is ordained by Jesus. we have not denied that divorce is a sinful act. you are denying that homosexuality is a sinful act.

but ALL sinners can be forgiven, if they repent. and God's grace extends to the sinner who committed divorce just as surely as it extends to the sinner who committed a homosexual act. but forgiveness only comes with repentance.

I'm not trying to drag anything off topic despite the accusation....... but let's get back to the topic of divorce.

No I do not believe all of the bible is inspired by God. Evidently you don't either because you say you do, you say: all scripture is the inspired word of God, and Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word of God, and thus everything that is written in scripture by any of the biblical authors is ordained by Jesus., yet you are the one who is attempting to "skirt" around the divorce verses so you can justify your own divorce and remarriage. According to the bible if you have an unscriptural divorce and remarry you are in a continuous state of adultery; it's says you're forgiven if you repent and sin no more. There's no difference between you and I repenting yet staying in our current marriages and a homosexual that repents yet continues to remain in a homosexual relationship instead of becoming celibate. NO DIFFERENCE. The difference between you and I is that I will be truthful about it and not try to make excuses around it.

Do I think I'm going to hell for being remarried; no I don't, and neither do you. Does our opinion on this disagree with scripture...of course it does. I'm just willing to face up to it and admit it (even though I don't like it) whereas you are not willing to do that preferring instead to hold others feet to the fire but leave an "out" for yourself.

Triune God -- There a Father, a Son and a Holy Ghost, I do not believe in the triune God (3 in one) that the Catholic church voted into existence at the Council of Nicea.

I don't trust Paul 100%. I always reread the words of Jesus whenever I've read words by Paul. According to the Bible Paul did persecute Christians before he became one.

Cobalt -- It's none of your business why I got a divorce. I don't intend to detail my dirty laundry here; this isn't the place to write a book. What's done is done and was done decades ago as far as that goes; however, that does not change scripture. I can read, I know what it says. I also think very few people really, truly believe the bible where the scriptures concerning divorce are concerned for obvious reasons, there are grey areas in real life that are not covered in the divorce scriptures. There's no mention of wife beating, and as for the adultery exemption, how many people would even know for sure, most adulterers aren't going to "fess-up" but will deny, deny, deny if confronted. That's just 2 grey areas.

YES i believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, correction, reproof, and everything else that i asked of you. you are incorrect in saying that apparently i don't because i'm skirting what scripture says, because i'm not. and i've pointed it out numerous times. including scripture that specifically addresses God's grace to those who have repented of the sin of divorce.

but, since you do NOT believe, according to your own statement, that scripture is the inspired word of God, then there really is nothing left to say. i understand now why you live under condemnation, giving satan the upper hand over your life. i certainly will pray that God's mercy and LOVE FOR YOU will be revealed to you, so that your life might glorify God and bear witness to His grace. He DOES love you, you know?

[anti-hillbilly]

you talked all around the bush but didn't answer a single one of my questions. so now i have a few more for you. do you believe in the triune nature of God? that Jesus IS God? and back to one of my original questions, do you believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and profitable for doctrine, correction and reproof? do you believe that Jesus is the living word of God?

do you believe that paul/saul were spiritually one and the same? i ask that one because you refer to paul as a persecuter of christians, when he wasn't. saul was. saul and paul may have inhabited the same body, but when saul repented and dedicated his life to the service of the Lord, he became a new creature in Christ, and unlike the rest of us, he got a new name to go with it.

you are skirting the issue and also trying to drag this thread off topic to further a homosexual agenda. bottom line, all scripture is the inspired word of God, and Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word of God, and thus everything that is written in scripture by any of the biblical authors is ordained by Jesus. we have not denied that divorce is a sinful act. you are denying that homosexuality is a sinful act.

but ALL sinners can be forgiven, if they repent. and God's grace extends to the sinner who committed divorce just as surely as it extends to the sinner who committed a homosexual act. but forgiveness only comes with repentance.

I'm not trying to drag anything off topic despite the accusation....... but let's get back to the topic of divorce.

No I do not believe all of the bible is inspired by God. Evidently you don't either because you say you do, you say: all scripture is the inspired word of God, and Jesus IS God, Jesus IS the Word of God, and thus everything that is written in scripture by any of the biblical authors is ordained by Jesus., yet you are the one who is attempting to "skirt" around the divorce verses so you can justify your own divorce and remarriage. According to the bible if you have an unscriptural divorce and remarry you are in a continuous state of adultery; it's says you're forgiven if you repent and sin no more. There's no difference between you and I repenting yet staying in our current marriages and a homosexual that repents yet continues to remain in a homosexual relationship instead of becoming celibate. NO DIFFERENCE. The difference between you and I is that I will be truthful about it and not try to make excuses around it.

Do I think I'm going to hell for being remarried; no I don't, and neither do you. Does our opinion on this disagree with scripture...of course it does. I'm just willing to face up to it and admit it (even though I don't like it) whereas you are not willing to do that preferring instead to hold others feet to the fire but leave an "out" for yourself.

Triune God -- There a Father, a Son and a Holy Ghost, I do not believe in the triune God (3 in one) that the Catholic church voted into existence at the Council of Nicea.

I don't trust Paul 100%. I always reread the words of Jesus whenever I've read words by Paul. According to the Bible Paul did persecute Christians before he became one.

Cobalt -- It's none of your business why I got a divorce. I don't intend to detail my dirty laundry here; this isn't the place to write a book. What's done is done and was done decades ago as far as that goes; however, that does not change scripture. I can read, I know what it says. I also think very few people really, truly believe the bible where the scriptures concerning divorce are concerned for obvious reasons, there are grey areas in real life that are not covered in the divorce scriptures. There's no mention of wife beating, and as for the adultery exemption, how many people would even know for sure, most adulterers aren't going to "fess-up" but will deny, deny, deny if confronted. That's just 2 grey areas.

YES i believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, correction, reproof, and everything else that i asked of you. you are incorrect in saying that apparently i don't because i'm skirting what scripture says, because i'm not. and i've pointed it out numerous times. including scripture that specifically addresses God's grace to those who have repented of the sin of divorce.

but, since you do NOT believe, according to your own statement, that scripture is the inspired word of God, then there really is nothing left to say. i understand now why you live under condemnation, giving satan the upper hand over your life. i certainly will pray that God's mercy and LOVE FOR YOU will be revealed to you, so that your life might glorify God and bear witness to His grace. He DOES love you, you know?

If God's grace covers remarried divorcees like you and me then it'll cover homosexuals in homosexual relationships too. I don't believe in double standards bible style. That's all I'm saying.

I know God loves me; God loves everybody already. I most certainly DO believe in God even if I don't believe every word in the bible is of divine inspiration.

Edited October 16, 2006 by anti-hillbilly

[Guest LadyC]

and for the record, since you keep dragging homosexuality into this thread, yes there is a difference. God doesn't hate the homosexual, He hates the ACT of homosexuality. if a person is staying in a homosexual relationship, they are continuing in their lifestyle.

God doesn't hate the divorcee (not even you!) and think that the person is an abomination. God hates the ACT of divorce. you are not continuing in a constant state of divorce. nor are you continuing in a state of adultry. when you repented of divorce, you were forgiven. prior to repenting of divorce, if you were shacking up it was adultry. if you were married prior to repentance it was adultry. if you have repented and turned your life over to Christ, God recognizes your CURRENT marriage and His commands regarding marital responsibility, including intimacy, apply to you and your wife.

according to the logic you're using, Abraham would be in hell, do you realize that? because he was married to his half sister. that's incest. it's a sin. but when Abraham dedicated his life to God, God no longer recognized sarah as abraham's sister, He recognized her as abraham's wife.

God keeps His word, anti-hillbilly. even His promise to forgive you, to love you, to bless you, and to let you inherit His kingdom.

[Guest LadyC]

If God's grace covers remarried divorcees like you and me then it'll cover homosexuals in homosexual relationships too. I don't believe in double standards bible style. That's all I'm saying.

I know God loves me; God loves everybody already. I most certainly DO believe in God even if I don't believe every word in the bible is of divine inspiration.

you seem to throw alot of judgement around without actually listening to what people are saying. i have repeatedly, over and over and over and over ad nauseum, that God's grace covers homosexuals who have repented and turned from their sinful lifestyle. that is not a double standard.

but i agree with cobalt. if you don't believe the entire word of God to be inspired, you should throw your Bible in the trash.. because if even one word of it is not inspired by God, then the god you know is a liar... because HE SAYS that every word of it is given by His inspiration.

i'm not trying to be hateful. nor was cobalt. but you are in error, and it is our responsibility as Christians to point out the truth to you. we aren't condemning you, nor is Jesus. that condemnation you feel is from satan, not from God, and is from yourself, not from us.

[anti-hillbilly]

and for the record, since you keep dragging homosexuality into this thread, yes there is a difference. God doesn't hate the homosexual, He hates the ACT of homosexuality. if a person is staying in a homosexual relationship, they are continuing in their lifestyle.

God doesn't hate the divorcee (not even you!) and think that the person is an abomination. God hates the ACT of divorce. you are not continuing in a constant state of divorce. nor are you continuing in a state of adultry. when you repented of divorce, you were forgiven. prior to repenting of divorce, if you were shacking up it was adultry. if you were married prior to repentance it was adultry. if you have repented and turned your life over to Christ, God recognizes your CURRENT marriage and His commands regarding marital responsibility, including intimacy, apply to you and your wife.

according to the logic you're using, Abraham would be in hell, do you realize that? because he was married to his half sister. that's incest. it's a sin. but when Abraham dedicated his life to God, God no longer recognized sarah as abraham's sister, He recognized her as abraham's wife.

God keeps His word, anti-hillbilly. even His promise to forgive you, to love you, to bless you, and to let you inherit His kingdom.

Listen to yourself; everything you said is exactly the same thing a homosexual could (and some do) say. It's called bending the rules for me.

Incest is just nasty but I guess those rules got bent too. Do you think all of God's rule via the bible were meant to be bent or just the ones that apply to us?